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ebinkerd,
Just so you don't pull a troll and get defensive, just hear me out.

When my X was new, there was no 10 PERCENT ETHANOL garbage fuel.

The REAl gas equated to 2 MPG higher city and highway.

What I am saying is this, unless you can sell me non ethanol gas, your claim is a fart in the wind.
 

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ebinkerd,
Just so you don't pull a troll and get defensive, just hear me out.

When my X was new, there was no 10 PERCENT ETHANOL garbage fuel.

The REAl gas equated to 2 MPG higher city and highway.

What I am saying is this, unless you can sell me non ethanol gas, your claim is a fart in the wind.
10% ethanol should result in no more than a 3.3% drop in mpg compared to 0% ethanol. If you've lost 2 mpg off the already meager 15-17 mpg, you've got other problems.
 

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10% ethanol should result in no more than a 3.3% drop in mpg compared to 0% ethanol. If you've lost 2 mpg off the already meager 15-17 mpg, you've got other problems.
Maybe in a 4 banger Honda.
I can put 93 octane and get my 2 mpg back.
3.3 percent, pull some charts on thermos efficiency. I've fueled up with regular, non ethanol fuel recently, more power and 2 more mpg.
Really, want to get into this with me?
 

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10% ethanol should result in no more than a 3.3% drop in mpg compared to 0% ethanol. If you've lost 2 mpg off the already meager 15-17 mpg, you've got other problems.
Maybe in a 4 banger Honda.
I can put 93 octane and get my 2 mpg back.
3.3 percent, pull some charts on thermos efficiency. I've fueled up with regular, non ethanol fuel recently, more power and 2 more mpg.
Really, want to get into this with me?
If you seriously believe a higher octane gas gives you back 2 mpg, then no.
 

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10% ethanol should result in no more than a 3.3% drop in mpg compared to 0% ethanol. If you've lost 2 mpg off the already meager 15-17 mpg, you've got other problems.
I want you to go study stoichiometry.
Maybe after you have educated yourself, you can explain why high compression engines need 100 octane gas. Or, do you have an ECU fix that will make them run 3.3 percent less.

Just accept it for what it is. You are wrong, I am right. But don't you dare try and hype any fuel saving garbage on people in this forum.
 

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If you seriously believe a higher octane gas gives you back 2 mpg, then no.
I'm telling you right now, you are misleading people and attacking me for the truth.
Quit trolling me NOW
 

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10% ethanol should result in no more than a 3.3% drop in mpg compared to 0% ethanol. If you've lost 2 mpg off the already meager 15-17 mpg, you've got other problems.
I want you to go study stoichiometry.
Maybe after you have educated yourself, you can explain why high compression engines need 100 octane gas. Or, do you have an ECU fix that will make them run 3.3 percent less.

Just accept it for what it is. You are wrong, I am right. But don't you dare try and hype any fuel saving garbage on people in this forum.
You're either mistaking me for somebody else, or purposely arguing about something I haven't even commented on. Either way, I'm done.
 

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If you seriously believe a higher octane gas gives you back 2 mpg, then no.
Pure Regular gas, it is actually still for sale but you have to track it down.
More power and 2 mpg better fuel.
But, this gas is way more expensive than ethanol blend.

If you and your ecu fairy tale want to make a bet, let's play. i'll bet 2 thousand dollars I get 1.5 better highway on 93 over 87.
Put up or shut up.
 

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If you seriously believe a higher octane gas gives you back 2 mpg, then no.
Pure Regular gas, it is actually still for sale but you have to track it down.
More power and 2 mpg better fuel.
But, this gas is way more expensive than ethanol blend.

If you and your ecu fairy tale want to make a bet, let's play. i'll bet 2 thousand dollars I get 1.5 better highway on 93 over 87.
Put up or shut up.
A. Ecu ain't my fairy tale. Perhaps you should practice reading for comprehension?

B. 10% ethanol 90% gasoline contains 96.7% of the BTU's as 100% gasoline. That's just chemistry bruh...

C. How do you propose we test this "2mpg gain running 93 octane in a 3.3l xterra" bet? Your gonna test it then holler back right?

PS: I have a BS in Mechanical Engineering and 25 years work experience. What are your credentials?
 

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A. Ecu ain't my fairy tale. Perhaps you should practice reading for comprehension?

B. 10% ethanol 90% gasoline contains 96.7% of the BTU's as 100% gasoline. That's just chemistry bruh...

C. How do you propose we test this "2mpg gain running 93 octane in a 3.3l xterra" bet? Your gonna test it then holler back right?

PS: I have a BS in Mechanical Engineering and 25 years work experience. What are your credentials?
So, you don't want to take the bet, kind of a long winded excuse to bow out of a bet, but again, put up or shut up.

2000 bucks, an ME should have that laying around. I can raise that bet to 20,000 bucks and ClubXterra can escrow the money.

You ECU gurus in for this bet?:nerd:
 

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PS: I have a BS in Mechanical Engineering and 25 years work experience. What are your credentials?
PS: Means nothing to me and everyone else, except for you.
Seriously, got 20 grand? I'll show you non ecu fuel economy.
 

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Sure thing. I'll design the test.
Nope, here is the test.
Crappy Race Track Fuel, Open interstate, at 77 mph.
Refill from complete empty system on pure, zero ethanol 93 octane.
If I said 55 mph, I would be the ringer, 77 is giving you a brick in the wind edge.
 

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Oh so now you want 100% gasoline AND 93 octane AND 77 mph?
Yes I do, you claimed an ME degree and dismissed ecu garbage science.
Just what I thought, can't shut up and won't put up.

77 mpg on cheap fuel get 240 miles. 55 on pure 87 gas gets 340.
80 on 100 octane should get about 300.

What you can't seem to understand is, an Xterra is either cheaply tuned to run as is or you buy into magic fixes.

Seriously, got 20 grand burning a hole in your pocket? I don't bluff and I know Nissan motors.
 

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Yes I do, you claimed an ME degree and dismissed ecu garbage science.
Just what I thought, can't shut up and won't put up.

77 mpg on cheap fuel get 240 miles. 55 on pure 87 gas gets 340.
80 on 100 octane should get about 300.

What you can't seem to understand is, an Xterra is either cheaply tuned to run as is or you buy into magic fixes.

Seriously, got 20 grand burning a hole in your pocket? I don't bluff and I know Nissan motors.
Apparently you don't read well. The ECU thing ain't my fight. You get 93 octane 10% ethanol blend vs 87 octane 10% ethanol blend in a stock 3.3l v6 nissan xterra. I design the test. 2 mpg improvement or you lose.
 

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Apparently you don't read well. The ECU thing ain't my fight. You get 93 octane 10% ethanol blend vs 87 octane 10% ethanol blend in a stock 3.3l v6 nissan xterra. I design the test. 2 mpg improvement or you lose.
1.5 and game on.
At least you semi seem to agree there is no ecu or other magic capable of increasing mileage.
Why did you even troll me? I was attacking anyone gullible enough to think even TEN DOLLARS was a waste of time.

Worst case, people thinking they could improve their MPG read this and keep their money in their pockets.

But, like I said, pure gas vs ethanol blend, or no deal.
 

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1.5 and game on.
At least you semi seem to agree there is no ecu or other magic capable of increasing mileage.
Why did you even troll me? I was attacking anyone gullible enough to think even TEN DOLLARS was a waste of time.

Worst case, people thinking they could improve their MPG read this and keep their money in their pockets.

But, like I said, pure gas vs ethanol blend, or no deal.
Dude! I didn't come at you, you came at me.

My only interest in this thread was that I thought it would be cool to see the ECM algorithms.

My comment to you was that running a 10% ethanol blend vs 100% gas shouldn't cost you 2 mpg. You escalated it from there. I have no problem proving that point, or proving that a 93 octane vs an 87 octane in an Xterra with a 3.3l stock engine under normal conditions shouldn't gain 2 mpg. You want to make a bet out of, fine, but one variable at a time, and I design the experiment. Now i'm gonna have to catch the Walking Dead rerun 'cuz I missed most of it due to this 'discussion.'
 

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So, to get this back on track... I touched based with Martin at RS Enthalpy (for anyone who doesn't know, he offers tunes for KA's, SR's, RB's, VQ's and VH engines). He said he might be able to do something, he really just needs to see the inside of the ECU before he can determine anything. Now, I'm more than willing to crack open my ECU case and send him a picture, but it'll be over a month before I can do anything like that. If anyone here is willing to do that, let me know! Post the picture here, PM me, whatever. I'm super excited about that, because if Martin can crank a tune out, then that will be a very nice resource for those of us who interested in tuning (if you don't want a tune, good for you) since Martin is pretty well known for his tunes. The Enjuku team cars have run them in the past with great results and he has plenty of praise on nico, zilvia, and 240sxforums. I'm actually sending him my ecu for my 240 for KA-T build.
@JLBinHSV, there are a ton of resources available for tuning. I get lost in the sauce whenever I try to read it, so I leave it up to folks who know what they're doing for my stuff. I've found some great information by reading up on nistune specific stuff as well as the now defunct calum tuners. ka-t.org has some great resources and you'll find plenty of knowledgeable people on zilvia.net in the technical section. I'm not entirely sure that they have algorithims on there, but you can definitely view .bin maps. Another resource I've found to maybe try my hand at tuning (if I get an older vehicle to tinker with) is running an eprom emulator to view the data real time and making adjustments to a factory tune to optimize it. I found a thread on one of the pathfinder forums of an electrical engineering grad who was able to modify his factory vg30e board to accept eprom chips and then made a tune for a vg33e in his pathfinder using an N60 MAF so there may be a knowledge source there. A lot of the stand alone companies have their own forums about tuning as well.
 

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@JLBinHSV, there are a ton of resources available for tuning. I get lost in the sauce whenever I try to read it, so I leave it up to folks who know what they're doing for my stuff. I've found some great information by reading up on nistune specific stuff as well as the now defunct calum tuners. ka-t.org has some great resources and you'll find plenty of knowledgeable people on zilvia.net in the technical section. I'm not entirely sure that they have algorithims on there, but you can definitely view .bin maps. Another resource I've found to maybe try my hand at tuning (if I get an older vehicle to tinker with) is running an eprom emulator to view the data real time and making adjustments to a factory tune to optimize it. I found a thread on one of the pathfinder forums of an electrical engineering grad who was able to modify his factory vg30e board to accept eprom chips and then made a tune for a vg33e in his pathfinder using an N60 MAF so there may be a knowledge source there. A lot of the stand alone companies have their own forums about tuning as well.
Thanks! I don't even have much interest in tuning, I just like to know how things work, and ECM's have always been very 'black box' to me. I'll check out the sources you provided.
 
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