[Molly Washer]

I just bought an Xterra Pro4X and will use it on logging roads in northwestern Ontario. I have a few questions:

This is my first vehicle with a rear locker. Logging roads can be quite muddy with pools of water of various depths. I sometimes drive 20-plus miles one way. Should I engage the lockers at the start and wait I until I need it?

In a similar vein, I tend to stay in 2-wheel drive with past vehicles until it gets dicey. Is this what I should continue to do?

Lastly, I often walk into pools to determine the depth. At what depth should I abort and do a turn?

Thanks for helping!

 

[robcarync]

I just bought an Xterra Pro4X and will use it on logging roads in northwestern Ontario. I have a few questions:

This is my first vehicle with a rear locker. Logging roads can be quite muddy with pools of water of various depths. I sometimes drive 20-plus miles one way. Should I engage the lockers at the start and wait I until I need it?

In a similar vein, I tend to stay in 2-wheel drive with past vehicles until it gets dicey. Is this what I should continue to do?

Lastly, I often walk into pools to determine the depth. At what depth should I abort and do a turn?

Thanks for helping!

Great questions! I have a first generation (2004) Xterra...so the vehicle is slightly different...but here are my suggestions.

I would typically engage 4WD at the start...and only engage the rear locker if you need specific help over an obstacle or through the mud.

Well...how deep are you thinking you will see? The biggest threat to me is how soft the bottom of the water is? If it is a rocky river bed that won't sink in much, I may be comfortable going in up to tire height (no snorkel for me).

If it is very soft and muddy, you have to take into account how much deeper the water will be once you sink in.

The other aspect is when you drive through the water, your tires actually push the water forward and away from the truck, making the path effectively shallower.

Also, you have to take into account the entry angle. It may not be too deep...but a very steep entry angle will make it reach higher up on the front of the engine as you drive down into it.

The best way to think about this is to consider what parts are BAD to get water into.

1) Air intake: know where your engine gets its air from on the intake side of the engine. Don't get that submerged!

2) Rear Axle Breather: Axle should have a breather vent/valve on the top side to vent vapors and gasses as the gear oil heats up. You don't really want that submerged, as water get into your gear oil. I took a long stretch of fuel line and attached it to a nipple fitting to create an axle snorkel. I ran it up as tall as I could through a cross member and up by the bumper and tail light.

3) Front differential breather: The front differential should also have a similar breather tube. The stock breather on the first generation goes up pretty high, so mine is un modified.

4) There may be a breather tube on the transmission as well. Same thing applies.

That is the name of the game...keeping water out of axle oil, transmission fluid, and engine intakes.

On a side note wheel bearings can take a beating with a lot of water and mud crossings. I'm not sure how the bearing setup is on the 2nd gen...but if you do a lot of mud and water crossings above the hub, learn how to repack wheel bearings.

 

[Bitumen Bullet]

I know some of those roads, have a few stories, know someone who lost a leg on one of them, heard of more than one person who died on them.

Most of my driving on logging roads has been alone and often on roads no longer being used regularly. Sounds risky but most of the injuries and deaths seem to happen on the roads still in use. Since you're concerned about the depth of some water I'm guessing you are on the roads not seeing much logging traffic.

On some of those roads there isn't going to be anyone coming along to help so you have to get yourself unstuck. A conservative approach could be called for, which might mean keeping the hubs locked (if manual), transfer in 2H and diffs unlocked. Keeping the diff unlocked will make it easier to pick your path, and get stuck if that path isn't the right one. The tough spots I would take in 4L and save the locker for backing out, hopefully.

When traveling alone I do not like the more aggressive method of blasting my way through the rough or muddy parts. The worst stucks come from that. If blasting my way through the muddy section fails I end up with the vehicle buried far deeper than is possible if attacking with strategy using a minimum of momentum. Once stuck there is no momentum energy available, only traction and whatever I can get from my winches. I use comealongs so an extra 50 yards of winching gives me lots of time to ask if that much momentum was really warranted. Also some roads have precious few roadside winch points.

The mud holes on some old roads can be very deep so good to walk them. If you are way up north, closer to ocean than lake, some roads were only used in winter and risky to use in summer. If it looks like you are the first of the season to travel on those there might be a reason. For those roads the vegetation will tell you what you are about to drive into. Until you figure that out avoid those roads, avoid the moss, or send Mikey in first (or find a Mikey to send).

As for depth I do not like having my hubs underwater. Just last month I had a wheel bearing fail because I didn't think it had water in it when it did. At the same time I've driven through water so deep I've had to do it backwards to keep the engine from flooding, and in other cases I've removed the fan so it wouldn't spray on the engine. Oh yeah if you are making a habit of driving through deep water I'd recommend an electric fan you can shut off from the cab. As already pointed out depth depends on how much work you've done before hand and how much you want to do afterwards. If like me you are lazy try to keep the hubs dry, which means water no deeper than the axle and everything else should be fine.

Other tips would be to prep for getting stuck, or rather unstuck. Before heading into tough sections connect chains, cables and ropes front and/or back so you do not have to crawl in mud or go underwater to connect them. I often had tow hooks on the bumpers to wrap them around but when I didn't I would carry them on the hood, roof, or even roll down a window and carry them inside with all the tools. Tools that include at least one saw. More than once I've had to cut trees to make a corduroy road. In one case it took two of us a total of three days to make enough road to recover a vehicle.

Which reminds me. There was a fatal where the the vehicle got stuck and the person walked for it. Which is fine, BTW do you know how far and how fast you can walk in those conditions? If not practice and time yourself so you know. Thing is they didn't need to walk for it. The picture of the vehicle showed that it was completely hung up on the frame but there was more than enough rocks and trees in the picture to build a road if required, which I'm pretty sure wouldn't be needed. Even the stock jack would have been enough but there were large enough trees to lever the vehicle. Even if alone they could have piled lots of small rocks around the wheels used the trees to lever the vehicle up. A few rocks would fall into the hole left when the wheel was lifted. Pile more rocks, repeat until high enough to get trees under the wheels.

It's best to die doing something you want to do (hey we all gotta go sometime) but there is rarely any need to die just because you got stuck, even in NW Ontario. Have fun, have a plan, work the plan.

 

[Molly Washer]

Hi, Rob. Thanks for the generous, detailed reply. I've read it several times and will read it several more times. It sounds like water entering the engine/transmission should be my primary concern, trumping even getting stuck in the mud. I hadn't even considered repacking wheel bearings, so thanks for that tip too!

 

[beef tits]

I have a full time locker and typically wait until I get "stuck" to engage 4x4. A locker will get you a lot of places.... you'll be pleasantly surprised how little you need 4x4 with a locker. I say start there.

 

[Molly Washer]

Yikes, Mr. Bullet! I had no idea people died on logging roads. I also didn't know that off-roaders can use a jack, rocks, and trees to come free. I'm a 60-year old woman, so I don't know if I'd be able to do such a thing. I do own a chainsaw. Do you think I should take that? What sort of jack would you suggest? I'm pretty cautious because I go alone and I've never gotten stuck. I have turned around when I encounter something that seems too much for my skill set and situation. I am pretty confident that I'd be able to walk 20 or more miles to a paved road. I have paddled and walked thousands of miles alone and have top notch equipment. I wouldn't just walk without some camping equipment, rain gear, water, and food.

 

[Molly Washer]

Say, do you guys know anyone in Maine who off-roads? I'd love to ride along with someone who knows their stuff to learn as much as I could?

 

[Bitumen Bullet]

I had no idea people died on logging roads.

Hopefully injury and death is less common but it is still a risk. I would suggest carrying tow straps, shovel, axe (chain saw not worth the risk), Jack-All (some call them farmer jacks), gun (or air horn for the 3 blasts) and a few basic tools. Not so much for you to use but to have should someone else come along to help.

Recovery, or getting unstuck, is an energy intensive task. Those of us who are of smaller frame offset that by working harder, breaking tasks into smaller units but the same amount of energy or effort is still required. As you get older the total amount of energy available for any task is less. As I found out first hand today, but that's another story. It isn't likely that you have the available energy to recover a really stuck vehicle in a reasonable length of time.

Lucky for you your vehicle is well suited to the task, driving conservatively, saving the locker for backing out, is almost certainly all you need.

BUT I would suggest your back up plan be walking away and walking away early rather than after you've tired yourself out trying to get unstuck with all the equipment you have. You already have skills for walking away. You know what you need to spend a day walking followed by a comfortable night sleeping knowing you'll get to the main road or cell range the next day.

I will point out one more thing. You HAVE paddled and walked thousands of miles. The alone part will still work for you but your brain still thinks you can walk as you have in the past. If you do not currently walk in the conditions you drive through I would suggest doing so and timing yourself. That will help update your brain and give you real data to decide if you should leave the stuck vehicle right away or wait until morning.

Of course the main thing is to get out there and have fun!

 

[robcarync]

This picture is a good example of what I am talking about when I ask how soft the ground is under the water?

I went to a quick and generally easy local trail yesterday. I have been here before and it isn't difficult. I went alone (brother riding with me, but no other trucks).

I came up to a place with some standing water. It was only 6 inches or so deep, but the ground felt a little soft.. I stood on it and I sank in the mud an inch or so. It felt relatively solid, but I was wrong.

The instant my tires dropped, my front left tire sank in deep. My front right tire sank in about 4 inches (what I would have thought). I didn't realize how soft the ground was just a foot or so to the left.

My brother and I spent an hour and a half digging out the front tire, using a farm jack/hi lift to try and get the front left tire out of the muck.

No luck. It was only after I called on a local Xterra friend to come to the rescue. It took 30 seconds with a strap and another truck to get me un stuck. This was my first, last, and only time I have ever gone offroading alone. What would have been a complete non event with one other truck turned into several hours wasted.

Note in the photo, my farm jack is lifting my truck from my steel tube front bumper. My front left tire as you can see it now is off the ground and the bottom of the mud. My jack is 4 feet tall...but the weight of the truck forced it about 2 feet down into the mud. Without the jack holding the tire up, the mud was 2/3 of the way up on my tire. It would have slowly continued sinking until my frame was beached on the solid ground.

Not fun.

 

[Molly Washer]

I like your analytical mind, Bitumen. I read your post several times and I do appreciate the advice! Come June 2017, I'll be driving down two, long forest roads. Both are wide and dry, which I can see from Google Earth. I'll be driving shorter roads that will have some water and be far less well graded. I do appreciate your cautions, as I can be impulsive, but being so deep in the bush, I expect caution will trump my impulsiveness.

 

[Molly Washer]

So, Rob, you jacked up the wheel hoping to insert something solid under it, like carpeting, rocks, or wood?

 

[robcarync]

I tried a few things. There were a few things keeping me stuck.

1) To get out of the mud, there was a large nearly vertical wall where tire sunk in. Even if I had firm ground at the bottom, the wall to get back out was too tall to climb out of. I still had decent traction on both rear tires...but not enough to pull me out. Actually, if I had a rear locker, I could have likely backed out of it...so you have a plus there! I tried to wedge some boards and logs behind the tire to create more of a ramp to get out.

2) Traction at the bottom of the hole...I had none. I did raise the tire off the ground and wedge some logs/boards/gravel/rocks under the tire to get better traction...but that alone wasn't enough to pull me up the wall that was created when it sunk in.

3) The all around suction and goopiness of the mud. The mud was super saturated in that one spot, like a sink hole. The mud/water flowed around the wheel/tire (side walls, rims, into all the brake components, etc) and seriously added resistance (think like what you feel like in a soaked cotton T-shirt...it gets sticky and suctions to your body...that was the mud on my tire). I tried digging out the mud on the outside of the tire, but it took serious effort to shovel the mud around.

When it was all said and done, I finally was making some progress, but I already had a friend on the way.

What I ended up doing was jacking up the tire as high as I could so that tire was not in the mud too bad (IE: the photo that I attached). Without all of that added resistance on that one tire, I was able to back out about a foot, while I let the front bumper gracefully fall of the jack as it leaned over. Now the tire was stuck in the mud again, but about 12 inches closer to freedom.

Anyway...this just goes back to my example of knowing that the water and the depth is less important than what is on the bottom!

 

[Bitumen Bullet]

What I ended up doing was jacking up the tire as high as I could so that tire was not in the mud too bad (IE: the photo that I attached). Without all of that added resistance on that one tire, I was able to back out about a foot, while I let the front bumper gracefully fall of the jack as it leaned over. Now the tire was stuck in the mud again, but about 12 inches closer to freedom.

Progress is progress, you were well on your way to getting out. A couple of times in similar situations I've used the spare tire under the jack because all jacking did was to push the base deeper. The first time I tried that was with a buddies car. High school kids out pushing limits in a little 4cyl beater car. We used the spare and a little scissor jack (all we had). When that maxed out we put branches on the spare because it got pushed down into the mud. Much more jacking and many branches later we had the car out. Started pulling out branches but I was up to my elbow and couldn't even feel the wheel. Buddy was so happy we got the car out he said leave it so I did. I'm guessing it is still there, waiting for an archaeological dig to uncover it.

Used that trick with my own truck a couple times, even carried a pieces of wood for blocking which I could use for the base to sit on. Never bent the rim by jacking on it in mud but I prefer strong steel rims that are cheap enough to sacrifice. If the mud is deep I tie a rope to it in memory of that little spare tire slowly sinking in a northern bog. Ah good times.

Of course if getting unstuck isn't seen as a challenge or fun it can be brutal work. It was a cold wet fall day when we got that car stuck, couldn't handle those conditions now without endless breaks to dry out and warm up. And it can be a "infernal region of endless torture" if your passenger complains almost continuously for 12hrs about getting stuck in the most remote place they've ever been, but that's another story.