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sorry to disagree...isn't that to PROTECT the land from offroaders and other motorized sports from destroying the land and scaring wildlife away. so our children and their children can enjoy the wilderness. sorry, but as much as i like to wheel-the wildlife need somewhere to live in peace and quiet. that's why i hope more people start places like rausch.
 

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Lost in Translation
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sorry drake I'm with timb on this one... I'm all for the off road parks and what not.. but it actually does make sense.... you know there will be new trails that pop up.. honestly I'm surprised we aren't required to do more w/ our vehicles like they do with drag racing.. .setting up catch cans and what not so we don't pollute more...
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I don't look at it like you are disagreeing and I understand your point of view. I'll admit that the original post was more out of emotion than anything because I had just read the bulletin about Tellico being closed so yes, I did overreact. I won't edit my first post though because it will emphasize what it means to actually read before you react which I didn't do.

Yes, the lands must be protected because as you said, the wildlife are losing their habitats everyday from logging and development.

What concerns me though is this can open the door to land seizures/closures of lands that we ARE allowed to access by vehicle. I'm just seeing the beginnings of what is happening in the eastern states beginning to spread to the western states. Yes I wish more and more lands could be privately owned and developed for our use BUT there just isn't enough support without the federal government to open up large enough areas of land for us to access. A 50 acre park normally caters to the super-built rigs whereas I enjoy the scenery as much as I do the wheeling and you can't do that when all of the trails are basically a dragstrip.

I will admit I'm wrong with that first post and definitely overreacted BUT it still doesn't change my stance on the fact that WE (off-roaders) have got to start standing up for lands we are already allowed to access. We can't stand idly by and have the trails ripped right out from under us.
 

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Think about how "Eminent Domain" started as a legal precedent.

Originally used to allow a property to be bought by the government to allow routing of a hwy or a utility ROW, etc...

...Then modified to allow clearing of a blighted area for redevelopment...

...and now, used as a perk to reward developers for campaign contributions, etc...by simply handing them a property that was not blighted or even in the way...just seizing it, and handing it to a private party whou could then profit from it.

The writing is on the walls, and its written in sediment....

...the sediment that results from erosion.
 

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Lost in Translation
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ok .. i understand your point now... and i see you're point about enjoying the view... it all kind of sucks... save one thing something else must sacrifice... i feel you bout the land seizures and what not.. i had to fight for this country too.. and yeah.. this last monarchy we just got out of ..... we've lost more to that then any trail... basically this is America... if you don't like something you have every right to stand up and say something... but everything can be adapted bro... be easy... i think this guy is gonna help us all more than hurt us..
 

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slippery slope... more like slippery cliff
 

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Happy X-ing
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well i will give my 2 cents...

IMO i have no problem w/ widerness what so ever! I do have a problem when they make roads wilderness and they block not just vehicles but bikes and horses. If the gov. made both sides of the road off limit to wheelers is okay. BECUASE THERE IS NO REASON TO GO OFF TRAIL!!!

But when the dictionary describes wilderness as Land UNTOUCHED by man...and they close a road/trail made by man that is ubsurd...

And as Blue Ribbon says-
Preserving our land FOR the Public, Not FROM the Public...
 

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maybe they are trying to repair the damage we have done. a bike does not make noise...it the bike riders. as for horses...all for it. as for offroading trucks and atvs....i have myself bounced off too many trees and seen too many trail accidents (bushwacking, fluid spills, or just plain stupidity) to say that we don't effect the forests when we drive through it. i understand you want free places to wheel. so why don't you contact your local legislator to see if anything can be done to maybe allow small sections of national parks to give us OHV access. as for treading lightly....have you seen most of the wheeling videos on youtube??? sorry but as far as i have seen with man-when you give him an inch...he wants a mile. i don't blame the government for wanting to protect our forests from us. as long as it's for us and not to give away parcels as presents.
 

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Another thing to think about is access for people who can't hike, bike or ride horses, either because of disability or simply age. I agree the poor critters need some protection but it's possible to strike a balance between wilderness area's and citizen access. That may not mean any actual ORV style trails but at least we'd still be able to get out and see our Country.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
That's what I'm talking about... it's not just about rock crawling or whatever, it's vehicular access in general.

Here's an example of why this hits a sore spot with me:

The Sipsey Wilderness in Alabama is a "protected" area of Bankhead National Forest. No hunting, fishing or logging is allowed in wilderness areas. No mountainbikes (even though some do) or vehicles allowed except on the gravel service roads which are few and far between. And yet, 10+ acre plots of this "protected" wilderness has been sold by "????" to logging companies who come in and clearcut that 10+ acres as if they hit the forest with a cookie cutter. To make it worse, these plots are remotely located within the wilderness boundary rather than on the border. This means the logging companies get to make their own access roads to reach the legal logging areas which pass right through the so-called protected wilderness.

So now we've got a protected "wilderness area" just like what the 2,000,000 acres there will become, that now has huge square plots of land complete bare of trees or even worse, replanted with pine trees. Which makes so much sense since there has been an uncontrollable infestation of the pine beetle that's decimating forests in the southeast.

I'm not saying this is going to happen with that 2,000,000 acres but as we all have seen, with enough cash, you can do what you want wherever you want if you grease up the right people.

Yes I agree that unfortunately the majority of people who enjoy off-roading don't do it respectfully. And saying that it's the majority could be an understatement. But both sides of this debate have to meet somewhere in the middle because right now it's a one-sided battle and we are getting our asses kicked.
 

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I like the outdoors as much as the next person from hiking the AT to kayaking but they should take another look at closing lands. Maybe put the lands in local governments hands with restrictions like it has to stay open to the public and remain an OHV park an cut them a check that has to go to the up keep of the lands that could be paid to local wheeling clubs to maintain there trails they they use win, win if you ask me..

Maybe they should just have higher fines for the people going off the trails and dumping oil from there diffs and what not. I also think they should have maybe an inspection station where there can't be bad leaks and have to have a muffler, stuff like that. Raise the trail pass rate by a dollar or two that would generate some money things like that.

Something has to be done and closing the parks is not the answer. When your kids mess you do you just throw in the towel? No you talk to them punish how you see fit and go on with life you don't send them to DSS and give up.
 

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This government is a joke anymore theres no sense in fighting it. Honestly the best way to preserve orv parks are to buy your own land or join a club that buys/ rents its own land. Theres to many people that dont have any respect for offroad enthusiasts for us to stand a real chance. Its kinda like all the anti-gun people.... they hate something b/c they dont understand the people that enjoy it.
 

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Happy X-ing
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This government is a joke anymore theres no sense in fighting it. Honestly the best way to preserve orv parks are to buy your own land or join a club that buys/ rents its own land.
I TOTALY dissagree....it is worth fighting for! look at BRC and they are CONSTANTLY winning PRO-access fights! fights that we would have lost w/ out them....so if you dont belive in fighting then i can garantee we will totally loose our land..BRC is the best group i know..every one should have a sticker on the X of BRC
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Here are a few groups that help spearhead the defense of our lands.

Stay the Trail
Tread Lightly
Blue Ribbon Coalition

Joining one or all of them would be a great start for everyone.
 

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Here are a few groups that help spearhead the defense of our lands.
If I've learned anything about enjoying trails over time, it was certainly that we need to respect the land and support those who work to clean up after the random idiots that choose to disregard personal responsibility and common sense. That all got drilled into me long ago when I lived in AZ and went out a good number of times with my friend into the high deserts.

That all said, I'll have to poke around and see what I can't do to toss a small amount of money their way after I get home tonight. Thanks for the names to search for.
 

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Great debate brothers! I believe you guys are right, organization and involvement is key also, we must police ourselves. When you see someone abusing privileges, tactfully remind them or help correct them and if that don't work then report their asses. I hate it, but i'll report a poacher in a second, cause it's hard enough to find a place to hunt as it is, and it wasn't like that when I was a kid, but because of the few bad apples that have abused all of our privileges. Another thing that may help, befriend a game warden, park ranger or TVA cop (a lot of these guys share our passions and interests for the outdoors) and put their number on speed dial, tell them why you want their work number, "because I'm a responsible land user and citizen". I'm going to join these groups too, cause you guys pointed me in the right direction and I'm grateful.
 

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One would think in a econoy such as this the government would be trying to make money off this rather than shutting trails down make them pay to play. Kinda odd thinking I guess considering a nearby town has put in a new tax on home owners for rainwater that drains off the property into the sewer system.
 
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