[Drake]

This is really good to see. I am glad we can be civilized and restrained enough to DEBATE both viewpoints on gun control without it turning into some mud flinging, insult laden, circus. Yes, obviously, I am pro-gun but I applaud the others here for sharing their view in a respectful manner and my fellow pro-gunners for showing the same. I wish some of the people I have encountered would have the same intelligence to realize, the louder they yell and the more expletives they use, does not make them more correct in their argument. In an issue like this, I really don't think there IS a correct answer but I do know more gun restrictions are not the answer.

I agree in part with what KBCL mentioned referring to the bullying. I was fortunate and only subjected to the bullying pretty much any normal kid with a half way normal childhood would experience but I can still remember the few students throughout the years who were tormented day in and day out. The amount of acceptance and "normalcy" (if there is such a thing) obviously seems unattainable to a select few and their minds somehow rationalize a heinous act as being their only option.

The mind will not allow a "wrong decision". It isn't possible. No one single human being can voluntarily decide to do something wrong. There is ALWAYS a justifying motive. ALWAYS. Even right down to the most trivial choice to make. Running a red light? Justified by the thoughts that "I'm late, I have to" or "I'm not going to get caught this time", etc. Renting a crappy movie. Justified by the thought that "maybe it isn't as bad as others say" or "I want to see how bad it really is". Anything that can be viewed as being a wrong decision is ALWAYS justified in that person's mind with a purpose of learning, experiencing, teaching, or the only chance of survival.

With horrific acts such as shootings, in EVERY recent case, the perpetrator was one who's social life was that of torment, abuse, and most importantly, a lack of acceptance by their peers. They have a mindset that nobody cares, nobody even knows they exist, or ultimately, revenge is their only solution to redeem themselves. With the de-evolution of media outlets (my opinion), the spotlight is trending towards shining the brightest spotlight on the darkest of days. These select few see this and look at their life and the theory from research and studies believe that they feel "nobody knows who I am, nobody notices me, nobody cares, wait until I do this and I will be forever known". They know that if they commit suicide to end their misery, they will become just another number in somebody's statistics chart but if they commit a mass murder or other violent act that grabs headlines, they literally get immortalized. Acceptance and notoriety, even for something horrific, is still a type of fame they seek and feel justified for doing.

In my opinion, if we truly want to stop these horrific acts, we HAVE to make available the proper health care for these people. Treatments DO WORK if they are recognized and treated in time. Unfortunately, treatments and therapy are all too expensive for most, even with insurance in some states or people do not recognize the signs of mental illness in their child, spouses, siblings.

On a lighter note, I finally put my psychology major to use for once.

 

[ryandavenport]

^^awesome post sir.


Sent from my iPhone using AutoGuide.com Free App

 

[robcarync]

You are correct, it was a bit of a blanket statement that didn't do much. Maybe you specifically aren't afraid, but in general, the American population is full of fear. From what the media and your government pump out, there is always a new threat from somewhere. Terrorists, gangs, the guy next door etc.

Reading through some of the replies here and seeing this discussion pop up all over the place, there are plenty of people who feel the need to protect themselves from threats with fire arms. They can all claim that they aren't afraid, but if they weren't afraid of something, would they need to carry a gun?

1) Fear or being prepared? I personally have a CCW license, but don't carry. Hell, I don't even own my weapon anymore, partially because I live in areas that are relatively safe, that I don't fear. As people already mentioned, its a seat belt. It's an air bag. It's there just in case, but we hope to never use it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti gun, and I think it's far too late for any type of gun control in the USA. There are way too many guns out there now to have any hope of restricting a certain type or a size of magazine etc.

Agreed.

I don't have any solutions to offer, and I haven't really seen any suggestions that might make a difference. But just to toss it out there, and since I know it might get a rise out of a fair amount of you who seem to view things on the republican side of the debate, The whole suggestion of mental health screening. It makes perfect sense that you should have to go through a screening process for mental illness before getting a gun. But what is needed for this to work? Better access to mental health professionals throughout one's lifetime, which probably requires some sort of universal healthcare...

You don't necessarily need a single payer/universal health care system to have people screened for a back ground check...I had to have physicals and health checks when attempting to accept an Air Force ROTC scholarship for undergrad. I made appointment with a regular doctor from the approved list from the DoD, had the appropriate forms faxed over, showed up for physicals and health checks, had forms filled out, notarized, faxed back. Matter of fact, these health background checks worked out so well, my scholarship was taken away because a doctor when I was 12 years old wrote down "asthma like symptoms" on his appointment notes. Healthcare is an entirely new debate though...point is...the existing health care infrastructure can be used to process health and wellness checks for government use (gun permits, ROTC scholarship, etc)

As far as the bullying thing goes, you are correct that some people use it as motivation. I use it as motivation. But that does not mean it wasn't harmful. After years of being the victim of bullying through elementary school, I have suffered depression, suicidal thoughts, and even now, many years removed from it, I do not trust very many people, I am awkward or uncomfortable in most social situations. And many other things that are difficult to get over.

I understand that you likely do not know what it feels like to be the victim of constant bullying, or you would not have made such a glossed over comment about it. But try and remember that it is a very serious thing and glossing over it only ignores what is one of the most common threads linking most mass shootings together, which has sparked this latest gun control debate.

I agree that bullying is very harmful. My only point was that, in my opinion, the only person ultimately responsible for a shooting is the person who pulls the trigger. Bullying people makes you an @ss hole, but in my mind, doesn't make you responsible for a subsequent shooting.

It is the same concept as the number of guns causing murders counter argument: there are million of gun owners out there that never commit a crime...there are millions of kids being bullied that never shoot up a school...the bullies and the guns aren't the root problem here...what was the difference that made this one gun owner or this one bullied kid snap? The actions of an individual rest on the individual...in my mind, I am not ready to blame these crimes on inanimate objects or a punk kid at school (not saying you are....just clarifying my original post)

I'm not trying to down play bullying by any means

 

[KBCL]

1) Fear or being prepared? I personally have a CCW license, but don't carry. Hell, I don't even own my weapon anymore, partially because I live in areas that are relatively safe, that I don't fear. As people already mentioned, its a seat belt. It's an air bag. It's there just in case, but we hope to never use it.

This just proves my point. You even used the word fear.

I agree that bullying is very harmful. My only point was that, in my opinion, the only person ultimately responsible for a shooting is the person who pulls the trigger. Bullying people makes you an @ss hole, but in my mind, doesn't make you responsible for a subsequent shooting.

It is the same concept as the number of guns causing murders counter argument: there are million of gun owners out there that never commit a crime...there are millions of kids being bullied that never shoot up a school...the bullies and the guns aren't the root problem here...what was the difference that made this one gun owner or this one bullied kid snap? The actions of an individual rest on the individual...in my mind, I am not ready to blame these crimes on inanimate objects or a punk kid at school (not saying you are....just clarifying my original post)

Yes the actions of an individual rest on the individual, but I don't think you understand the anger, hate, and self-loathing that bullying can instill in someone. Add bullying to someone that might already be on the edge of mental illness...When you understand how repeated bullying makes you feel, it's easy to see why some people snap.
The elimination of bullying and better programs in place to detect and treat mental illness would probably go a long way in stopping a lot of tragedies.

 

[robcarync]

This just proves my point. You even used the word fear.



Yes the actions of an individual rest on the individual, but I don't think you understand the anger, hate, and self-loathing that bullying can instill in someone. Add bullying to someone that might already be on the edge of mental illness...When you understand how repeated bullying makes you feel, it's easy to see why some people snap.
The elimination of bullying and better programs in place to detect and treat mental illness would probably go a long way in stopping a lot of tragedies.

We can nit pick over whether it is fear or not...I said I do not fear where I live. Perhaps I misspoke and implied no longer needing my weapon was OK out of no longer having fear...the fact that I live in a relatively safe place IS a factor in deciding to own a firearm or not; this is independent of fear.

I was NEVER fearful of where I was...I mentioned this to your point implying that gun owners fear something. I didn't fear when I had a firearm, I don't now. As mentioned, living in a safe area (always have, living in a safe area is not new to me) was one of many reasons for no longer owning one. Part of it was schedule (not enough time to consistently practice with it), being a student (can't carry on campus, where I was most of the time), money (was in the process of moving to Iowa, ammo was expensive, range fees went up), and not wanting to to deal with checking a firearm on an airplane while moving to Iowa, not wanting to go through the process of learning new state laws regarding firearms, etc

At the end of the day, I NEVER was in fear no matter where I was living at the time. My firearm was essentially a range gun because I enjoyed shooting at paper targets...but it was nice to have, knowing I understood how to use it if I needed to. I call this preparation, not fear.

On the hypothetical side of things, if I had lived in a very bad area, or was moving to a bad area, I would have considered keeping it...not out of fear, but when doing a cost/benefit analysis...a higher risk to bodily harm means protection is worth a higher cost. Acknowleding a higher risk does not mean fear. Would you wear a seat belt on a race track? On a highway? While offroading? While moving a car out of the driveway? While in a parking lot briefly? Same point...I will feel comfortable in certain low risk situations without a seat belt (parking, driveway, etc)...but offroading, or on a highway, you have a lot higher risk...all of a sudden the potential risk outweighs the annoyance of buckling up. That is not fear. It is logic driven decision making.

You are right...I do not know of this anger and hate. I was not bullied, and I was not a bully myself. I surely understand the concept of the bullied snapping and doing this...but the fact remains that, of these tragedies, statistically, they are an anomoly. There are still a LOT more mentally ill people that never commit a crime, there are a LOT more bullied kids that never commit a crime...there are a LOT more gun owners that never commit a crime...even combining the three, I would venture to say that there are a lot more kids that are mentally ill, are bullied, who live in a house with guns, and never commit these crimes.

I am not down playing the harm bullying does...simply stating that some people are exposed to the same risk factors...some kill people, some don't. It is, in fact, the human element.