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Need assistance diagnosing this one

2K views 34 replies 4 participants last post by  XT2015 
#1 ·
So I am stuck on this one.
2003 Xterra will crank but won't start. It will squeal and then start if I give it a little gas.
Once it starts it doesn't stall, but really quiet and low RPMs.

Attached are a video of me starting it and live data from the scanner.
It's pulling a P0420 and a P0430 when I read the codes.

Video: IMG_0899.MOV




 
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#2 ·
Well, your engine isn't up to temp with the 133 degree reading on the coolant. Long term fuel trim on bank 1 is pushing a lean look since it is adding more fuel over the long term. I would be looking closely for a vacuum leak. Have you checked your engine ignition timing recently with a timing light. Your advance is 24 at idle. Your load percentage of 26% at idle makes me think loss of vacuum signal also.
 
#5 ·
Ok. Sorry for the delayed update. I was able to try a good amount of things on the long weekend.

I was able to take the car to a shop on Thursday They replaced a few vacuum lines, cleaned the throttle body, and cleared the check engine codes. We didn’t really drive it long distances too much with the long weekend and we stayed around town. After about 24 hours we noticed that the car started to experience the issues again. The rough idle was back and so was the stalling.

I have started to notice that when the engine is cold it will have no problem starting or driving. It won’t stall until we’ve driven it around and the engine has come up to temp (183°F). It also gets harder to start the engine when it’s warm. I spent the rest of the weekend trying other things.

Here are the things I’ve replaced or tried so far.
  • Fuel filter
  • Lucas fuel injector cleaner
  • Running 91 octane fuel
  • Check fuses
  • check fluids

I checked for additional vacuum leaks or loose connections. I noticed that when the car was turned on and in park. If I tapped the MAF sensor it would change the idle and even stall the car. From what I’ve read this could indicate the MAF sensor is bad? Is there any way I can check if the sensor is bad or do I just have to replace it?

The car has stalled without me tapping on the sensor so I am wondering what else I can start testing to track down the issue.
 
#6 ·
Check for any leaks, even tiny ones, between the MAF and the TB. Unmetered air can cause a smooth idle to go wonky.
 
#8 ·
I previously checked the between the throttle body area and the MAF with a propane torch, looking for vacuum leaks. Is there a better method? I wasn’t able to hear any RPM changes when testing.
I’ll double check the MAF connection and even throw on some dielectric grease for good measure. When I was tapping the connector seemed pretty secure though.
 
#10 ·
Ok update.

Checked MAF sensor connection. Cleaned contacts. Cleaned MAF again. I decided to also replace the fuel sending unit and the fuel pump. I haven’t gotten any codes since the mechanics cleared them. Even though it’s stalled out multiple times. I figured that it could be fuel related. I just got done with a test drive, letting it warm up to 180°. It doesn’t seem to be as rough of an idle as before, but after turning it off and back on when the engine has warmed. It still doesn’t start as strong. RPMs go up then come back down, barely catching before they stabilize. I think I’ll need to do more driving tomorrow to make sure, but I think I can rule out the fuel components in the tank.
 
#11 ·
Today's update.

I drove it a lot more today and so did the wife. Still rough idle and it's hard to start. I pull the codes and I was happy to finally see a code is pending.

P0335 - Crankshaft Position Sensor A Circuit

So I am going to go ahead and pick up a new sensor to see if it's that simple. Does anyone have any other ideas?
 
#17 ·
Update for today.

I was able to replace the sensor, such a pain to get to. I was only able to get it with a wrench instead of a socket.

I cleared the single code for the crank shaft sensor. After a test drive the car still wants to stall doing things like driving through a parking lot or stopped at a red light. Only when the engine is warm is it wanting to stall or having a rough idle. When it wants to stall at a stop, moving it into neutral seems to keep it from stalling but the idle goes really low.

On the plus side. Starting the car doesn't seem to be a struggle anymore. So far it's started right up and it no longer turns over 3+ times. I will check for vacuum leaks once again, but unless there is something tucked under the engine, I have checked every hose up top.
 
#18 ·
Went to go get dinner tonight and the car ended up stalling pretty hard in the parking lot, I was just idling in drive. I started it back up and this time idled in nuetral. It kept wanting to stall but never did. I checked for vacuum leaks when I came home. Again using the propane torch to go around all the pipes and injectors. At this point I am going to look at the distributor or the fuel injectors. They are the only thing left that I can think of.
 
#20 ·
Ok. Dived into spark/fuel analysis.
Sparks on all the wires look good.
sparks on the distributor cap look good.
distributor cap looks fine (this part looks fairly new, I think this was replaced not too long ago).

I tested the resistance of fuel injectors 1,3,5.
1 and 5 are in spec, while 3 is 23.1ohms.This makes me think it could be either the problem or apart of the problem.
Does anyone know how I can check the resistance of fuel injects 2,4,6 without taking the manifold off? Any thoughts on 3? Should I replace that one?
 
#21 ·
Ok. Dived into spark/fuel analysis.
Sparks on all the wires look good.
sparks on the distributor cap look good.
distributor cap looks fine (this part looks fairly new, I think this was replaced not too long ago).

I tested the resistance of fuel injectors 1,3,5.
1 and 5 are in spec, while 3 is 23.1ohms.This makes me think it could be either the problem or apart of the problem.
Does anyone know how I can check the resistance of fuel injects 2,4,6 without taking the manifold off? Any thoughts on 3? Should I replace that one?
Yes replace injector on 3. The resistance spec should be 11 to 13 ohms. Blackberry knows how to check the resistance at some wire harness junction location I believe.
 
#22 · (Edited)
Alright another update.

Replaced fuel injector #3 with a good one. Test drove with no issues. Still a rough idle though. So I came back and let it idle in the garage to look under the hood. It ended up stalling again idling in the garage. I took a video of it this time, after running idle for about 10 min, it ends up stalling out.

I didn't take the intake off, but I did take a hose and ran it under the intake with the other side attached to my ear listening for vacuum leaks. I also tried attaching the end to a propane torch and running it under the intake near injectors and vacuum lines. I wasn't able to get the RPMs to change or hear any vacuum leaks.

I haven't gotten any codes related to engine performance since the crank shaft sensor.

Here is a link to a video of the engine stalling after it's been warmed up, hard starting, and some pics of the scanner once it stalled.

[EDIT] - Link updated
 
#23 · (Edited)
That link tells me that I need access...

Edit: Link works now! :)

Your fan clutch is really loose!

Have you checked the anti-stall pot under the throttle linkage and/or the arm that it pushes on?
 
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#24 ·
I’ve noticed that as well about the fan, it’s on my list once I track down this issue.

I’ve seen that area on the intake before. Is this adjustable? How so I check it? Should the arm make contact with the cylinder that drops down from the pot?
 
#25 ·
The thing I can’t get my head around is that the car itself drives great until it’s come to operating temp. Then engine gets rougher as it warms and the stalling doesn’t happen until it’s up to operating temp. Something seems to be getting overheated maybe?
 
#26 ·
If overheating is a concern, maybe a better airflow from a better fan clutch could help.
 
#29 ·
Alright update again. I apologize for the delay.

So I decided to take a step back and read the service manuals and a few other entries on the forum. I drove the car around to warm it up and then I followed the service manual on checking the timing on the engine. I found out that the timing was pretty close to 0° instead of the 10°-12° that it should be. I had timed the engine after installing the distributor, however the engine wasn't warm so I am not sure if that is why It's not accurate. I re-timed the engine, following the service manual.

Once the engine was properly timed. I have noticed two things
1. The roughness has reduced, it feels almost back to normal.
2. It hasn't stalled on me in the last few days.

The only issue that remained was that I can't just put the key in and start it. I have to turn the key to ignition, allow the fuel system to pressurize, then I can start it. If I don't, it cranks 10-15 times then starts.

Since re-timing the engine, I have driven it for almost a week without stalling the engine. However, today new issues have arrose.
I was driving and the engine once again went into limp mode, however this time it was different. It was more of a "womp womp womp" going 20mph. I couldn't accelerate faster then that. I now have 3 codes.

- P0731
Gear 1 incorrect ratio
- P0101
Mass or Volume Air Flow A Circuit Range / Performance
- P0103
Mass or Volume Air Flow A Circuit High

The P0101, P0103 lead me to believe that the MAF sensor is indeed bad (weird, because I tested that prior to the dizzy replacement).

Should I try to swap out the MAF with a Hitachi and see if that resolves the issue? Any thoughts on the P0731?

Video of "womp womp womp" sound. IMG_1106.MOV
 
#30 ·
Alright update again. I apologize for the delay.

So I decided to take a step back and read the service manuals and a few other entries on the forum. I drove the car around to warm it up and then I followed the service manual on checking the timing on the engine. I found out that the timing was pretty close to 0° instead of the 10°-12° that it should be. I had timed the engine after installing the distributor, however the engine wasn't warm so I am not sure if that is why It's not accurate. I re-timed the engine, following the service manual.

Once the engine was properly timed. I have noticed two things
1. The roughness has reduced, it feels almost back to normal.
2. It hasn't stalled on me in the last few days.

The only issue that remained was that I can't just put the key in and start it. I have to turn the key to ignition, allow the fuel system to pressurize, then I can start it. If I don't, it cranks 10-15 times then starts.

Since re-timing the engine, I have driven it for almost a week without stalling the engine. However, today new issues have arrose.
I was driving and the engine once again went into limp mode, however this time it was different. It was more of a "womp womp womp" going 20mph. I couldn't accelerate faster then that. I now have 3 codes.

- P0731
Gear 1 incorrect ratio
- P0101
Mass or Volume Air Flow A Circuit Range / Performance
- P0103
Mass or Volume Air Flow A Circuit High

The P0101, P0103 lead me to believe that the MAF sensor is indeed bad (weird, because I tested that prior to the dizzy replacement).

Should I try to swap out the MAF with a Hitachi and see if that resolves the issue? Any thoughts on the P0731?

Video of "womp womp womp" sound. IMG_1106.MOV
Replacing the MAF with a Hitachi unit sounds like a solid next step. Have to wonder if the 731 is a secondary code resulting from the MAF distress.
 
#32 ·
Hey! Update today.
Since replacing the MAF with a new Hitachi one. I haven't had any of "limp mode" issues come back. So that is a win! No stalling either.

The only problem that remains is that the car will not start when it's gotten up to temp and is hot. Normally after driving around for awhile. For example if I drive around town then stop somewhere, If I try to crank it, the engine turns over multiple times, but never starts. There is a rough idle that gets more and more noticable as the engine gets warmer as well. Fuel trims are still not where I think they should be, I will post a few pictures here shortly.
 
#35 ·
It is not unusual to have water condensing and dripping out of the exhaust on a cold start up depending on the temperature. When you changed the oil did you prime the new oil filter with fresh oil to reduce the delay in your system oil pressure from coming up to full run pressures? Peeking into the valve cover to look at rocker arm valve train oil flow is not going to give you any real information on oil flow other than is there oil flowing or is there not.
 
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