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PML questions

6K views 21 replies 8 participants last post by  yellowx16 
#1 ·
I am doing my pml over winter break and i cant decide between the calmini shackles or the AC adjustable. Only reason i am not going to get AC's regular shackles is because i have heard they tend to run a bit longer than usual. I know that i will not have much adjustment left in the front, as i have already leveled my truck, so i may gain roughly a .5"-.75". So i am just looking for advice on what to do. Also any pics of a pml with adjustable shackles at the 1" setting would be great. I cant seem to locate any on the internet or on the forum.
 
#2 ·
Just do the pml with the AC shackles that I and everyone else uses and then get low pro bump stops for the front and crank torsions up. Mine sits level and that's what I got. Plus I'm running 33" tires and 18" wheels. (That's with a BL too though)


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#3 ·
#4 ·
I know that i will not have much adjustment left in the front, as i have already leveled my truck, so i may gain roughly a .5"-.75". So i am just looking for advice on what to do.
I got .5"-.75" starting from scratch. If you truly keep a .5" upper bumpstop gap, I doubt you will get much, if any more than you already did. What's your gap currently?

Just do the pml with the AC shackles that I and everyone else uses and then get low pro bump stops for the front and crank torsions up. Mine sits level and that's what I got. Plus I'm running 33" tires and 18" wheels. (That's with a BL too though)
Low pro bumpstops do nothing but add some downtravel... they don't affect how high you can lift it and still get an alignment. The .5" gap metric is just a reference for how high you can go and still pull the tops of the tires in far enough to dial out the positive camber. You don't want a factory alignment, search for the aftermarket... it calls for 0 camber.
 
#5 ·
Low pro bumpstops do nothing but add some downtravel... they don't affect how high you can lift it and still get an alignment. The .5" gap metric is just a reference for how high you can go and still pull the tops of the tires in far enough to dial out the positive camber. You don't want a factory alignment, search for the aftermarket... it calls for 0 camber.
I wasn't saying you get more with them. Just saying I recommend them. I only cranked to the suggested amount of a pml. And that was with stock bump stops. I never cranked again when I changed them.




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#6 ·
I've got AC's adjustable lift shackles, they're beefy as all hell. I've got them on the 2nd-to-highest setting and have been considering bumping them up to the highest.

I can say that if you don't plan on running them at the highest setting, you're going to have a lot of metal hanging down behind your leaf spring. Even on the 2nd-to-last hole I've got a decent amount of shackle sticking straight down behind the springs. Not a huge issue, but it does pose a risk of being caught/banged on obstacles.
 
#7 ·
yeah, most people advise against adjustables because you get that extra shackle hanging off. If you have your torsion bars maxed out...you may not have room to go any higher...then you may not even need shackles if you want the leveled look. Most likely if you already raised the torsion bars, you wont have much more lift in the front if any...you may not be able to go any higher with stock ucas.h

I use my adjustables at full height with the UCAs that allow for 3 " in the front...that gives me the more leveled look that is a bit hgher than a pml...expensive though
 
#8 ·
Currently i am sitting at about .5" on the left side and a little over .75" on the right. So i have maybe a little adjustment on the right but i am probably done on the left. Id like a little bit of added height but i can't afford UCA's now. Most people have a little bit of rake with a pml i am assuming, plus i have a bl so will a 1.5" rake be too noticeable? I wouldn't mind a little bit of rake i just dont want it ridiculous looking.
The only reason im considering the adjustable shackles now is for the sake of being able to lower the back incase the rake is too much for my liking.
Xtacular- How much rake do you have on your x? It looks like a little bit but i really like the stance of your truck.
 
#9 ·
I did the PML with the adjustable shackle...put it on a lower setting first (2nd to last hole) and did not like the large rake...immediately started saving up for UCAs to get more height in the front so I could max the shackle out. The nice thing about that is its an intermediate step before UCAs...

I am putting my body lift in tomorrow...so I will have adjustable shackles, UCAs, and a body lift...I will take some pics to give you something to consider...I drove my truck 3 months or so with just the adjustable PML before I got the UCAs.

I would say though, that I personally would not get the adjustables if UCAs are not in your future sometime, given that your stock UCAs are pretty much maxed out. The extra length hanging off...it probably WONT catch on stuff if you wheel...but it does look goofy and annoyed me with the rake. Without much room for adjustment in the front, it doesn't make much sense to me unless you can lift the front more in the future...as pretty much all extra height will just be in the rear.

On a side note, AC UCAs are indeed expensive and a pain to install...but I think it was definitely worth it. Adjustable shackles on the highest setting and AC UCAs give you a lift that is noticeably more than a PML, and you are still able to maintain the more leveled look ... and you don't stiffen the suspension by adding a leaf pack. Plus, like I said, you can rock a lower setting PML while saving for UCAs....do the lift in stages to ease the financial pain.

Have I convinced you to get UCAs yet?!
 
#10 ·
Thank for the help Rob, you have me convinced! Its tough being in college and trying to mod my truck at the same time, but i should have enough money to get some UCA's relatively soon. Im really interested to see how your truck will look after the body lift. How much rake did you have when you were at just pml? I agree on the adjustable shackle overhang, that would bother me too. Thats the only reason why i keep going back and forth, especially because i am not positive if i will be getting new UCA's soon.
 
#11 ·
To me the AC adjustable shackles are a wast of extra money..

Once you get these on your X, You're not going to want to change it later..
This is not a hard job.. but its not something id want to do back and forth..

People gain a little with the normal AC shackles but its not a issue really.. If you going to do the 3" lift with the rear pack they are really un needed always.. Mirage, RacerXXL both ended up going back to the stock shackles due to the pack alone giving the 3" lift.
Both of those cats know what they are doing..

Look at those AC adjustable shackles too.. you will have a chuck of metal hanging down if you do not use the full lift. If your wheeling it.. Thats more to catch on rocks and so on..
 
#12 ·
I did the PML with the adjustable shackle...put it on a lower setting first (2nd to last hole) and did not like the large rake...immediately started saving up for UCAs to get more height in the front so I could max the shackle out. The nice thing about that is its an intermediate step before UCAs...

I am putting my body lift in tomorrow...so I will have adjustable shackles, UCAs, and a body lift...I will take some pics to give you something to consider...I drove my truck 3 months or so with just the adjustable PML before I got the UCAs.

I would say though, that I personally would not get the adjustables if UCAs are not in your future sometime, given that your stock UCAs are pretty much maxed out. The extra length hanging off...it probably WONT catch on stuff if you wheel...but it does look goofy and annoyed me with the rake. Without much room for adjustment in the front, it doesn't make much sense to me unless you can lift the front more in the future...as pretty much all extra height will just be in the rear.

On a side note, AC UCAs are indeed expensive and a pain to install...but I think it was definitely worth it. Adjustable shackles on the highest setting and AC UCAs give you a lift that is noticeably more than a PML, and you are still able to maintain the more leveled look ... and you don't stiffen the suspension by adding a leaf pack. Plus, like I said, you can rock a lower setting PML while saving for UCAs....do the lift in stages to ease the financial pain.

Have I convinced you to get UCAs yet?!
This is sorta wrong..
When your adding the full 3" lift them its not a PML.. Because your adding $400
in UCAs to give it the lift. The Poor mans lift is based on 1.5" of lift with just rear shackles and cranking the T bars..

Yes the PML is part of the full lift, But I feel like your telling noobs that these are 2 different things.

Full lift can be:

Front: UCA, crank T bars for the full 3"s (Some add stronger T bars)

Rear:
1. Shackles and a AAL (Add a leaf)
2. Full rear pack..
There are more options...
There is more to this but I figured noobs will look at the SL area on CX.
 
#13 ·
Xtacular- How much rake do you have on your x? It looks like a little bit but i really like the stance of your truck.
It's pretty raked man. Depends on what I'm parked on, sometimes I feel like I NEED UCAs and sometimes I'm happy with it. Keep in mind if you get control arms, you'll need another $150 for cam bolts, sawzall blades and an alignment, although you'll need the alignment either way you go.

Here's mine with just a PML. At that time I cranked to just 1/4" bumpstop gap, which was a mistake, and I ended up lowering it, and paying for another alignment. Anyway, the front should have been even lower than this.

 
#14 ·
i think i will just go with the calmini shackles and some lo pro bumpstops. I realize i wont get any more height out of the front because im about maxed but i may crank them a tad bit and put in the lo pro bump stops. I never got an alignment after i originally cranked the t bars so i will do that this winter. Thanks for the help
 
#15 · (Edited)
This is sorta wrong..
When your adding the full 3" lift them its not a PML.. Because your adding $400
in UCAs to give it the lift. The Poor mans lift is based on 1.5" of lift with just rear shackles and cranking the T bars..

Yes the PML is part of the full lift, But I feel like your telling noobs that these are 2 different things.

Full lift can be:

Front: UCA, crank T bars for the full 3"s (Some add stronger T bars)

Rear:
1. Shackles and a AAL (Add a leaf)
2. Full rear pack..
There are more options...
There is more to this but I figured noobs will look at the SL area on CX.
I think there is a misunderstanding with what I was saying...I don't see where I went wrong.

I started with a PML with adjustable shackle. This is stock UCAs and adjustable shackle set to 1.5" (2nd to last hole). That is how much shackle you have to get caught on. In my opinion, not enough to do any real damage here. More of an eye sore. I rocked this lift for a few months while saving for UCAs to finish the lift. The rake in the pic is about the same rake my stock X had. ~1.5" lower in the front.





I'll explain my logical reasoning here...

By your own admission, and as seen on 4x4parts.com...the single AAL, and the AAL pack adds 3" to the rear on its on.

If you do your PML and add 1.5" of height with a shackle...and 1.5" with stock UCAs, your rake is the same (1.5")

If you decide to go higher, you need UCAs to get another 1.5" in the front. You then add a leaf pack which is 3" on its on. You now have 3" in the front and 4.5" in the rear, adding 1.5" to your rake (3" total), making it less leveled. You then have to go back to stock shackles (wasting 65 bucks on shackles, 1.5" rake). Or you need to shell out a couple hundred on revolvers to try and restore some flex that you lost by adding stiffness to your springs (revolvers add 0.75"...so 2.25" total rake). More wasted money. more downward rake.

If you prefer a more leveled look (not completely level), as the original poster stated he had already leveled his truck without shackles, the above does not make sense, to me. His stock UCAs are nearly maxed out, and adding any shackle to the rear will increase the rake.

So, following the path I took:

Buy adjustable shackles...install them on the 2nd to last hole (1.5", same as normal PML, or 1" setting etc). Crank your stock t bars / UCAs to 1.5". See how your rake sits. not happy with your rake? want to go higher?

Buy UCAs. Install them, lift the front 1.5" more for a total of 3". Max the shackle out to 2 1/8" total lift. Lifting the front 3" inches and the rear 2 1/8" REMOVES 7/8" from your rake (~5/8" total rake), letting you have more lift than your original PML....but still reducing the rake!

I am not saying a PML is an adjustable shackle and UCAs. I am saying you can do a PML with the adjustable shackle....and if you want to go higher with UCAs...you can still remain leveled without getting rid of your shackles or buying revolvers, which to me would be wasted money.

Its really not tough to adjust the shackle and you don't really go back and forth. I installed them at 1.5" and left them for a few months until I had UCAs. I installed UCAs, re indexed torsion bars, and took the bolt out, lifted the truck with a jack, put the bolt back in. Its not an adjustment on the go or anything...you are already tackling the front end, the adjustable shackles will be the easiest thing you do on the day you install UCAs.

Anyway, I hope that clarified. I think the adjustable shackles ONLY downside is you have a tiny bit hanging off the end...which to me is not going to get you stuck. It is an eye sore though. It can be fixed by adding UCAs in the future, which has no downsides at all. No increased stiffness in the pack, no 3 inch rake, great flex, etc.

Bad pic since it was dark, but BL + UCAs + Adjustable shackle + 32s:



My advice summarized for original post: Decide your tolerance for a downward rake, and determine if it is remotely possible to get UCAs in your future. That answers your question as far as which shackle to get.

If you want a leveled look, and you absolutely DO NOT WANT UCAs, leave it as is. Adding any shackle to the rear will un-level your stance without the UCAs.

If you want a leveled look, and think that you may eventually get UCAs, get the adjustable shackle.

If you decide you don't care about the leveled look, and you absolutely DO NOT WANT UCAs, get the regular PML shackle.

If you decide you don't care about the leveled look, are OK with stock rake of ~1.5", and think that you may eventually get UCAs, and are OK with making your rear springs stiffer, skip the shackle, get the AAL pack and the UCAs.

If you REALLLY don't care about the rake, and think that you may eventually get UCAs, do your PML with the shackle, add a leaf pack, and UCAs later. Rake of ~3 inches or so.

The point is...think ahead regarding your suspension lift. If you think you will ever go higher than a PML, you should skip the regular shackle all together and just start $aving for UCAs. Your desired rake and flexibility determines whether you do AAL in the rear (stock rake, stiff springs) or a taller adjustable shackle (smaller rake, greater flexibility, but lower overall height in the rear)
 
#17 ·
No problem man...just wanted to make sure I clarified what I was saying and my reasoning to consider them.
 
#18 ·
I am doing my pml over winter break and i cant decide between the calmini shackles or the AC adjustable. Only reason i am not going to get AC's regular shackles is because i have heard they tend to run a bit longer than usual. I know that i will not have much adjustment left in the front, as i have already leveled my truck, so i may gain roughly a .5"-.75". So i am just looking for advice on what to do. Also any pics of a pml with adjustable shackles at the 1" setting would be great. I cant seem to locate any on the internet or on the forum.
Or just specifically call AC when you order and tell them that you want the holes exactly 6" OC apart... Mine were 6 3/4" so i added a hole (after checking w/ ac) which worked out since i only got ~1inch lift up front... But main point is to just specifically order them how u want them...
 
#19 ·
I understood what you were saying rob, i think the adjustable shackle may be the way to go. Then i can leave it at the 1" setting for a few months then when im ready for uca, install them and adjust the rear to the 2 1/8" height and i will be set. This will definitely save me some money and my truck already rides stiff enough so id rather not stiffen the spring pack. Truck looks good by the way Rob that body lift made a huge difference.
 
#20 ·
I know there is alot of good opinions on here but just recently I did the PML on the front only. On a stock xterra the back end is 2" higher to start with. I just cranked up the front, made the truck level and it looks sooooo much nicer, braking is way better(no nose diving) and handles way better. With the truck level I just think it looks better. Any other brand of truck(ford, jeep, toyota) they tend to be level. With 1.5" lift on the front I gain the wheel clearance and some slightly in the back that was already to start with. Just my 2 cents for the day.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Ok good...I don't want to mislead or confuse any one at all. I don't mean to go off on a side tangent on UCAs when the topic is on the PML, but just wanted to provide a different perspective for how you can progress through a suspension lift and how getting UCAs later can impact your shackle choice.

Here are a few more pics for reference:

Adjustable Shackles (maxed) + UCAs + 2" BL + 32s



Close up of the adjustable shackles so you can get an idea for how much spacing there is between settings and how much overhang. 1" setting would leave a good bit of overhang, the 1.5" didn't leave a lot.

 
#22 ·
No problem i planned on eventually getting UCA's anyway. I definitely am going to get the adjustables for now and hopefully i can get UCA's soon, that overhang will drive me crazy haha. I definitely like the look of your truck with the adjustable shackles, UCA's and BL. I have 31's so i think the 2 1/8" SL would work better anyway.
 
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