I visited my mechanic today just to go a shoot the breeze with him, talk cars and what not and he brought up a startling subject. Proprietary Computer Software in the new cars starting 2017. Basically, local independent shop owners are screwed and could see themselves either out of the job or the most sought after in terms of the subset of the market that is trying to hoard older vehicles with minimal computer parts.
He said that GM and Ford are bringing a lawsuit to gain absolute control over their products (cars/trucks) based on the software paten laws. Once a car is designed around the software, not the other way around, the car itself becomes hardware for the software to run (think macintosh computers and OSX or iOS which is proprietary to that specific computer).
So basically what this lawsuit does is make it to where you really cannot modify your vehicle, you will not be able to take it to a dealer and tell them you want a cheaper part or you want to modify the computer for various mods. You will no longer "own" your car! You can purchase it from the dealer, drive it around, use it how you want to use it but you cannot legally change or "hack" the product for personalization.
If you understand patent and software laws in America, in order to obtain multiple copies of the software, you have to buy more license to use that software on other computers. If that software is designed for a specific device, you have to buy that device and like Macs, you cannot modify them or it becomes a useless brick. So with new vehicles, once you try to modify the "device" (truck), you alter the entire product illegally and your truck becomes useless!
I trust my mechanic, he is a very smart guy, he is the youngest shop owner in a 30 mile radius at age 40, he graduated mechanic school with 4.0 GPA and a micro computer degree. So he is a very smart guy and the only mechanic I trust to do the job right and only charges $60/hr when I know he could out perform and out smart any tech that works for a stealership that make $100/hr.
If this is where the automotive industry is headed in America, then we will see the end of car enthusiasm and a divide of Old World vs. New World. Independence from corporate power is slowly shrinking and it is all happening while we are busy watching duck dynasty romancing the idea of the frontier that really only exists if you are rich and own swamp land.
I don't mean to make this a political thing, it is what it is though. If you enjoy being able to mod and personalize your truck, make it YOURS then hold onto your Xterras and any vehicle you have sitting around in the backyard pre-1996 and get them working before the age of independent mechanics die out with the cars that make their living.
People are blowing this way out of proportion. There is no way in h@ll they will be able to take it as far as people are worried about. There aren't only copyright laws there are also consumer laws, competition, privacy, etc etc laws and probably many more that I have no idea about will not allow it.
That's so we can eventually have electric, self-driving vehicles only that will drive us where we want to go on automatic roads..
You'll pay extra to go outside the daily work commute in the cities, to one of the few designated and approved recreational areas where automatic roads can get your car
Long live the American Muscle Cars.
We need more t-top firebirds and other cool cars back on the road..
Those computer systems are easily hacked.. Anyone can kill you remotely, at the touch of a button.. Monitor your position and speed 24/7.. Pointless.. They'll just email you a ticket anytime you go over the speed limit, no matter when or where or how many times or how alone you are.
Exactly, built in GPS systems are now wired into the main computer instead of it being a stand alone "part of entertainment system". You can now program car computers with cell phones! Indeed there will be people like us who will find away around it by finding guys like my mechanic who also specializes in computers and software. We need smaller independent car manufacturers as long as the laws let us have non regulated software, we can stay in the clear but I guarantee that in 20 years we will see phasing in of laws that monitor our vehicles and restrict it from breaking any laws.
Thankfully we have shows like Counts Customs that bring drama to a car enthusiast show that inspires the masses to appreciate cars. Before that show, we had those really cheesy 80s and 90s saturday morning mod shows that only real die hard car guys and gals watched. And as far as NASCAR goes, it paved the way for car modifications and sport but honestly, the hey day is over and all it promotes now is corporatism, brand loyalty, fame, fortune and politics. To me in my personal opinion, NASCAR is to racing as WWE is to wrestling. Not really sure how legit those races really are when millions of dollars worth of advertisement are at stake but again, that's just me being a skeptic lol...
Knowledge is power and that is exactly why people come to this forum, to learn from the experienced average guy who just wants what it is his and to have power and more control over their machine. There is nothing quite like the feeling of beating the system by getting under the Xterra and improving it and knowing it is better than it was without money flying into a dishonest shops bank account. I have already saved $1000 in the past 4 months because I was tired of being a slave to maintenance costs, all thanks to this forum. I feel a kumbaya moment coming on LOL :laugh:
Yep 13 companies have petitioned congress to change the laws of usage rights of their products pertaining to software. They used some of the most absurd arguments one could think of, like John Deer argued that one could hack music from its entertainment system. I could picture a farmer hacking Beyonce's latest single from his 120k combine.
But actually what this could lead to is they own and sell the diag equipment and anything else they put a chip and a line of code into. :nerd:
People are blowing this way out of proportion. There is no way in h@ll they will be able to take it as far as people are worried about. There aren't only copyright laws there are also consumer laws, competition, privacy, etc etc laws and probably many more that I have no idea about will not allow it.
In case you haven't noticed, laws mean nothing anymore to those with power, money and the will to use both to their own ends.
I'll walk or ride my bike before I own anything newer than my '00 X, or ride in a driverless car for that matter. The more advanced the technology, the more BS you have to deal with, including proprietary crap, which in turn drives cost UP.
Yea when it comes to privacy laws, when is the last time you walked down a street and did not see a camera? That includes cell phones, go pros....the laws are just to outdated to give any protection and once you sign a contract to own equipment or vehicle, you can easily waive those rights. IF the car makers are successful in getting more exclusive software laws that could more or less make them the new "Apple" to where when you purchase a vehicle, you setup your car computers and "agree" to everything it says or you do not drive it! I can totally see this happening. Maybe not in the next 3 years but 10 for sure. I can assure you though that car companies are funding the campaigns of senators who will push for these new software regulations. Again using security reasons to trump personal liberty. You cannot even go fishing without going through some red tape, even if it is in your own back yard. You think the Robertsons do not have fishing license? Think again!
I just imagine a scenario like in that show "Revolution" where power goes out because of micro bots living in the atmosphere and cars cannot start because of stupid computers linked up to the "mothership" at the GM headquarters have been shut down. I know you are thinking "Thats highly unlikely" but so was laser guns 10 years ago but our battleships are now equipped with them. Tanks have death rays now that shoot microwaves into a crowd causing burning and blown out ear drums.
There will be a day when every move you make in a vehicle is recorded and used against you if those in "power" decide you've broken their "rules". It's happening now with privately owned speed cameras that make millions of dollars on so called public roads.
that new Chevy sends emails to you detailing everything you've done or the exact function of the vehicle, including any error codes etc
while it appears useful on the surface, it really isn't,.. and seems more of a step towards something much more invasive and corporate/sinister..
I can totally see your complete vehicle record coming up on the internet with GPS tracking, speed info, turn signal and lane change info, all compared with the rules of the specific road, and a bill being sent to you for not using a turn signal on a deserted road, and all that info being sent to your insurance company, and searchable by anyone on the internet.
at the very least, it'll be used by the NSA, FBI, and local law enforcement to monitor any vehicle at a given time..
and all cars will soon be equipped with video cameras "used for sensors" that relay real-time driving video to anyone interested
large manufacturers sit around in privileged meetings held by international Conglomerates for the Business & Political Elite where they discuss the direction of the future and what they see us pathetic peons doing for them in the future..
creating cars that all look the same is probably the first step towards getting people to give up real feelings of ownership and individuality for their vehicles, so pretty soon getting into a vehicle is going to be a lot like turning on an apple computer and you have to agree to terms of service and usage rights agreements before the thing will start up.. and this so people start to view vehicles as property of others, heavily carbon taxed, that will drive for you..
before long we wont even own our own vehicles, a little pod without a steering wheel will pick you up at your house at the same time every day, then drive you to work together with a line of other pods, and then take you home the same way.. and this so you have more time to watch advertisements and commercials
groceries will be delivered for you, according to michelle obamas diet plan
and the rest of your time you will spend watching commercials and advertisements on television courtesy of the same companies that want you to be a mindless buybot, which you pay the tv & cable companies dearly for, contributing to the most shameless display of double-taking the market has ever seen
Yeah, that there are commercials on pay TV has always irked me.
I remember back when they came out with cable, and, the pitch was "No Commercials, because you pay for your subscription instead".
And, gradually, commercials started to sneak in....at first, essentially ads for their own services, and, eventually, exactly like it was with antennae.
So, now we have paid subscriptions for TV PLUS commercials.
Yep, that's why on Monday, we are dropping cable, and just going with Netfix and Hulu. We might not get everything we have now, but it's more than enough. And it will be saving us over $100 a month. I'm just so tired of dealing with all the BS from companies, that think they are in power of how I live. There is plenty of alternatives out there, you just have to find them. Besides, less TV, means more time in the shop, lol.
That's a pretty good idea.. Hulu and Netflix is totally enough.. I've never had a tv for the simple reason that I'm not paying anyone for commercials. If they want me to watch commercials all day they can pay me for it or at the very least offer it for free.
Perhaps they think if they charge you for it you will watch it more often, and if it was free people wouldn't care to watch it so much..
Redbox or movie theaters are a better choice for movies than the movies the television companies buy and overplay all the time that are really nothing more than broken up short teaser movie segments between profitable advertisements to keep people watching their commercials for hours.
I agree about the cable companies and how they are just programming us to be consumers because let us face the facts that our economy is rich from consumerism (capitalism) and yes you have more basic freedoms than other countries from the government but the real educational value in this country is based on teaching kids how to produce products, sell products and buy products. It keeps us from thinking about bigger issues and climbing the latter. When you buy more stuff you lose more money giving you less freedom. It's a vicious cycle and you are either a naturalist or a materialist who need the latest greatest thing to improve your daily life because you need something to distract you.
I have not payed for cable in over 7 years now because I refuse to fund commercialism. All those pharma and drugs being pushed on us are not good for you, they just mellow you out or make you even more sick but yet the commercials make them seem like miracles. Branding is a huge thing all the way from political parties to sports to social media. We join a brand and stick up for it and follow its ideology whether good or bad. If you like Coke and you are republican and like green bay packers then you join the ranks of those same people who think the same and if someone from your team or party does something that is awfully unjust and wrong, you still support them, make excuses to justify their behaviors because they are on your team too. College fraternities teach you how to be submissive when your leader ask you to. You are taught to not think for yourself anymore but to rank-and-file and do as you are told.
All of the social unrest we are seeing today in this country is a product of divide and conquer tactics that have been in the works for decades. It's not just a democrat or a republican or a president, its media and corporatism because big business know that when the pot has been stirred and emotions are flying, people buy more stuff! We are creatures of habit and get mad and start buying impulsively because we all feel the world is going to end anyway. Your elected officials should have jump suits with all of their sponsors logos everywhere like NASCAR drivers do because that is exactly what is going on. Super rich people have nothing to worry about when it comes to their rights because in this country, money cannot buy you happiness but it buys you absolute complete freedom and control from anyone and any government because government is ran by people with the same impulsive and neurotic behavior who can be bought.
Oh man, those pharmaceutical commercials are the worst ever..
You'll get sick just watching them.
Its pretty sad how people just follow the leader just because they belong to a certain party, but whats way more sad is how the wealthy people in power in those parties use the people following them to their own ends. They threaten the opposition with scare tactics by inciting anger in their followers, stirring them up, and their followers don't even see it. It happens in all parties.. They use us and actually don't share any of our ideas at all.
When someone brings up equality in tax laws that every American should pay the same percentage, the wealthy people threaten to make everyone in their party against the IRS and in abolishing the IRS altogether.. Simply as a threat because their followers blindly obey and believe whatever they're told to believe..
Politicians should definitely be forced to wear overalls with sponsor patches, just so we can see which company and interest groups own which politicians and political votes.. Special Interests and Corporate Lobbyists control our politicians and run our country..
And everyone in power is only interested in their own personal gain and status and profiting. Its all they care about..
And we are definitely divided from within by many forces, particularly Hollywood, the Media, and our own clandestine agencies that divide citizens from the government, and treat their own citizens so poorly, as enemies.
Another example of how leaders and leading voices in parties control the people following them in ways that have no benefit for the followers and only benefit big corporations is Medical care.
America now has one of the highest mother mortality rates in the world.. Its like living back in the dark ages.. You are much more likely to die giving birth to a baby in America than you are in Saudi Arabia.
And this because millions of American women don't have health insurance and can't afford the astronomical costs of giving birth.
And millions of Americans are against them getting health care just because of the spokespeople for corporations whose job it is to control the masses of blind followers in their party..
Its a sick society we live in that cares much more about profits and politics than people.
And it has nothing to do with capitalism and everything to do with a government that's been raped by people in power who are given power by others in power for no other reason than to rape the government. Our laws are changed by corporate puppets to serve individual monetary interests, and people in power change our country's laws and policies to redirect cash flow to their own pockets.
Our problem is that ultra free-market capitalists, who's nature it is to exploit and profit-monger, are in charge of our nation who's original responsibility is supposed to be to the people and their well-being.
Our country and its resources are drained dry every time the next greedy whore gets into power.
I agree. My grandparents who spent their younger years starting a family in the late 40's and 50's worked for Goodyear. Goodyear in those days set up multiple textile mills and built huge subdivisions and financed the homes for their workers to live in. They also had their health insurance premiums paid for, 2 week paid vacations, sick time and retirement pensions all provided by this huge corporation and only one person in the family had to work to provide for their families, which today does not exist unless you have a BS degree and you are lucky enough to work for a more liberalized company. What Goodyear did back then is now considered corporate socialism in today's politically correct environment. All the "tea-baggers" want to bring back the beaver cleaver days and the 1950s but fail to research that taxes were 45% and it was the most socialist decade of the 20th century! How do you think the interstates got paved? Socialism!
Back to Goodyear, The profits that the CEO's made for the company trickled back down to it's workers but now CEO's make 235% more profits than 30 years ago, hoard all those profits and worker wages have not budged, no one gets their premiums paid for, no vacation time, barely enough sick days to cover even a strep throat, working overtime and not having a life to enjoy because you are working all the time. If you multiply for inflation, minimum wage in the 50s and 60s was like making $11/hr in todays economy. Cost of living is outrageous thanks to everything being tied to the price of oil so it is hard to save money but yet we get duped into buying the latest and greatest iPhone that does not even work after a few updates.
I would much rather pay $32 of my tax money to go towards someone and myself getting health insurance than $320 of my tax money going to subsidize huge billion dollar corporations! To have a strong nation with good morale, we cannot say people do not deserve health care and food. At the very least, these should be #1 . When you take away food stamps, you basically take away a farmers ability to sell his crops because that is exactly what food stamps were designed to do. Also, my family owns a grocery store of 65 years and 25% of our business is food stamps! Walmart moved in next door and took away 20% of our business causing my dad and my uncle to lose their homes because they could no longer draw paychecks. But yet the Walmart corporation gets subsidized by public money!!!! How come my families business does not get subsidized to keep their doors open when an illegal monopoly comes into town selling foreign made plastic shit, shutting down local businesses?
Now back to the first initial topic, Computers. Once the auto-makers (who were bailed out by us) get to say how we can and cannot modify and drive our trucks, then we will have finally seen one of the last nails driven into the coffin that contains the old America in which there was a dream of liberty and prosperity and no entity could regulate our lives.
heres my problem with camera tickets and or email tickets. Traffic tickets are supposed to go against the driver's license, NOT a car. I could lend my truck to a friend, him drive like a total arse, then the ticket would come to me. BS. That would be a ticket I would fight every time. Municipalities bank on people just paying tickets bc they don't want to have to fight going to court.
This lawsuit is total bs. If a huge company files a suit like this, its bc one of their bean counters found a way to maybe make money. I'm surprised auto companies don't change code every year just to prevent tuner companies from turning out products OR small repair shops to have to purchase more diagnostic crap.
Here is a link to a vlog that Ericthecarguy just posted about this very subject. He brings up interesting scenarios about computer performance tuning and the aftermarket shops. Slippery slope is what I say.
Their only argument is that it might not pass emissions..
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard, an obvious lie.
All that's going to happen is aftermarket open-source computer systems being created that are fully customizable and the original being completely ripped out.
Yep and they want out of the way of any liability from an accident caused by a failed part. If they find out you modified your vehicle, they can say that the computer was not calibrated to except your mod so therefore you compromised your own safety. A lot of recalls last year has really put the pressure on the manufacturers and designs. Since we bailed out these car companies, they've basically lost any gains due to recalls and now want a way out.
They're already not accountable for any aftermarket modifications, so the point is completely moot.
There's something far more sinister going on
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Related Threads
?
?
?
?
?
Nissan XTerra Forum
666.8K posts
75.2K members
Since 2005
A forum community dedicated to Nissan Xterra owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about superchargers, modifications, troubleshooting, maintenance, overlanding, towing capacity, and more!