PML questions - Page 2 - Nissan Xterra Forum
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post #11 of 22 Old 12-01-2012, 01:38 PM
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To me the AC adjustable shackles are a wast of extra money..

Once you get these on your X, You're not going to want to change it later..
This is not a hard job.. but its not something id want to do back and forth..

People gain a little with the normal AC shackles but its not a issue really.. If you going to do the 3" lift with the rear pack they are really un needed always.. Mirage, RacerXXL both ended up going back to the stock shackles due to the pack alone giving the 3" lift.
Both of those cats know what they are doing..

Look at those AC adjustable shackles too.. you will have a chuck of metal hanging down if you do not use the full lift. If your wheeling it.. Thats more to catch on rocks and so on..
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post #12 of 22 Old 12-01-2012, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robcarync View Post
I did the PML with the adjustable shackle...put it on a lower setting first (2nd to last hole) and did not like the large rake...immediately started saving up for UCAs to get more height in the front so I could max the shackle out. The nice thing about that is its an intermediate step before UCAs...

I am putting my body lift in tomorrow...so I will have adjustable shackles, UCAs, and a body lift...I will take some pics to give you something to consider...I drove my truck 3 months or so with just the adjustable PML before I got the UCAs.

I would say though, that I personally would not get the adjustables if UCAs are not in your future sometime, given that your stock UCAs are pretty much maxed out. The extra length hanging off...it probably WONT catch on stuff if you wheel...but it does look goofy and annoyed me with the rake. Without much room for adjustment in the front, it doesn't make much sense to me unless you can lift the front more in the future...as pretty much all extra height will just be in the rear.

On a side note, AC UCAs are indeed expensive and a pain to install...but I think it was definitely worth it. Adjustable shackles on the highest setting and AC UCAs give you a lift that is noticeably more than a PML, and you are still able to maintain the more leveled look ... and you don't stiffen the suspension by adding a leaf pack. Plus, like I said, you can rock a lower setting PML while saving for UCAs....do the lift in stages to ease the financial pain.

Have I convinced you to get UCAs yet?!
This is sorta wrong..
When your adding the full 3" lift them its not a PML.. Because your adding $400
in UCAs to give it the lift. The Poor mans lift is based on 1.5" of lift with just rear shackles and cranking the T bars..

Yes the PML is part of the full lift, But I feel like your telling noobs that these are 2 different things.

Full lift can be:

Front: UCA, crank T bars for the full 3"s (Some add stronger T bars)

Rear:
1. Shackles and a AAL (Add a leaf)
2. Full rear pack..
There are more options...
There is more to this but I figured noobs will look at the SL area on CX.
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post #13 of 22 Old 12-01-2012, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowx16 View Post
Xtacular- How much rake do you have on your x? It looks like a little bit but i really like the stance of your truck.
It's pretty raked man. Depends on what I'm parked on, sometimes I feel like I NEED UCAs and sometimes I'm happy with it. Keep in mind if you get control arms, you'll need another $150 for cam bolts, sawzall blades and an alignment, although you'll need the alignment either way you go.

Here's mine with just a PML. At that time I cranked to just 1/4" bumpstop gap, which was a mistake, and I ended up lowering it, and paying for another alignment. Anyway, the front should have been even lower than this.


2002 Super Black 5 Speed 4x4
Lift/Suspension: AC Shackles and UCAs, Extended Bilsteins, 2" BL
Armor: front ARB Bumper, rear Skid Row bumper with custom tire carrier
Steering: Bandit 4x4 idler arm bushings, AC HD TRAs, Calmini IAB; Moog TREs and 555 centerlink
Wheels/Tires: 33x12.5x15 Goodyear Duratracs, desert runner wheels
Performance: K&N intake, Doug Thorley headers, Magnaflow muffler
Electronics: backup camera, Pioneer head unit, JBL 770w amp, JL Audio 12" W0, rear Sony Xplods
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post #14 of 22 Old 12-01-2012, 03:26 PM Thread Starter
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i think i will just go with the calmini shackles and some lo pro bumpstops. I realize i wont get any more height out of the front because im about maxed but i may crank them a tad bit and put in the lo pro bump stops. I never got an alignment after i originally cranked the t bars so i will do that this winter. Thanks for the help

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Custom rear bumper and tire carrier, ARB Front Winch bumper, Calmini PML, 2" Body Lift, HID projector retrofitted headlights, 4 5" pro comp spot lights on custom light bar, 2 6" Pro Comp lights converted to HID, 2 Rigid Industries Dually flood lights, 31x10.50416 BFG A/T on 16x8 Vision Wheel Warrior
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post #15 of 22 Old 12-01-2012, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drbandkgb View Post
This is sorta wrong..
When your adding the full 3" lift them its not a PML.. Because your adding $400
in UCAs to give it the lift. The Poor mans lift is based on 1.5" of lift with just rear shackles and cranking the T bars..

Yes the PML is part of the full lift, But I feel like your telling noobs that these are 2 different things.

Full lift can be:

Front: UCA, crank T bars for the full 3"s (Some add stronger T bars)

Rear:
1. Shackles and a AAL (Add a leaf)
2. Full rear pack..
There are more options...
There is more to this but I figured noobs will look at the SL area on CX.
I think there is a misunderstanding with what I was saying...I don't see where I went wrong.

I started with a PML with adjustable shackle. This is stock UCAs and adjustable shackle set to 1.5" (2nd to last hole). That is how much shackle you have to get caught on. In my opinion, not enough to do any real damage here. More of an eye sore. I rocked this lift for a few months while saving for UCAs to finish the lift. The rake in the pic is about the same rake my stock X had. ~1.5" lower in the front.





I'll explain my logical reasoning here...

By your own admission, and as seen on 4x4parts.com...the single AAL, and the AAL pack adds 3" to the rear on its on.

If you do your PML and add 1.5" of height with a shackle...and 1.5" with stock UCAs, your rake is the same (1.5")

If you decide to go higher, you need UCAs to get another 1.5" in the front. You then add a leaf pack which is 3" on its on. You now have 3" in the front and 4.5" in the rear, adding 1.5" to your rake (3" total), making it less leveled. You then have to go back to stock shackles (wasting 65 bucks on shackles, 1.5" rake). Or you need to shell out a couple hundred on revolvers to try and restore some flex that you lost by adding stiffness to your springs (revolvers add 0.75"...so 2.25" total rake). More wasted money. more downward rake.

If you prefer a more leveled look (not completely level), as the original poster stated he had already leveled his truck without shackles, the above does not make sense, to me. His stock UCAs are nearly maxed out, and adding any shackle to the rear will increase the rake.

So, following the path I took:

Buy adjustable shackles...install them on the 2nd to last hole (1.5", same as normal PML, or 1" setting etc). Crank your stock t bars / UCAs to 1.5". See how your rake sits. not happy with your rake? want to go higher?

Buy UCAs. Install them, lift the front 1.5" more for a total of 3". Max the shackle out to 2 1/8" total lift. Lifting the front 3" inches and the rear 2 1/8" REMOVES 7/8" from your rake (~5/8" total rake), letting you have more lift than your original PML....but still reducing the rake!

I am not saying a PML is an adjustable shackle and UCAs. I am saying you can do a PML with the adjustable shackle....and if you want to go higher with UCAs...you can still remain leveled without getting rid of your shackles or buying revolvers, which to me would be wasted money.

Its really not tough to adjust the shackle and you don't really go back and forth. I installed them at 1.5" and left them for a few months until I had UCAs. I installed UCAs, re indexed torsion bars, and took the bolt out, lifted the truck with a jack, put the bolt back in. Its not an adjustment on the go or anything...you are already tackling the front end, the adjustable shackles will be the easiest thing you do on the day you install UCAs.

Anyway, I hope that clarified. I think the adjustable shackles ONLY downside is you have a tiny bit hanging off the end...which to me is not going to get you stuck. It is an eye sore though. It can be fixed by adding UCAs in the future, which has no downsides at all. No increased stiffness in the pack, no 3 inch rake, great flex, etc.

Bad pic since it was dark, but BL + UCAs + Adjustable shackle + 32s:



My advice summarized for original post: Decide your tolerance for a downward rake, and determine if it is remotely possible to get UCAs in your future. That answers your question as far as which shackle to get.

If you want a leveled look, and you absolutely DO NOT WANT UCAs, leave it as is. Adding any shackle to the rear will un-level your stance without the UCAs.

If you want a leveled look, and think that you may eventually get UCAs, get the adjustable shackle.

If you decide you don't care about the leveled look, and you absolutely DO NOT WANT UCAs, get the regular PML shackle.

If you decide you don't care about the leveled look, are OK with stock rake of ~1.5", and think that you may eventually get UCAs, and are OK with making your rear springs stiffer, skip the shackle, get the AAL pack and the UCAs.

If you REALLLY don't care about the rake, and think that you may eventually get UCAs, do your PML with the shackle, add a leaf pack, and UCAs later. Rake of ~3 inches or so.

The point is...think ahead regarding your suspension lift. If you think you will ever go higher than a PML, you should skip the regular shackle all together and just start $aving for UCAs. Your desired rake and flexibility determines whether you do AAL in the rear (stock rake, stiff springs) or a taller adjustable shackle (smaller rake, greater flexibility, but lower overall height in the rear)


2004 Xterra 4X4

32" Cooper Discoverer ATP | Lokked and Dropped Front Diff |2.125" Lift Shackles | 3" UCA's | 3" Bils | 2" BL | TC IAB | Bandit 4x4 Idler Arm Bushings | Custom Bumpers | Shrock Sliders | RSB Delete | Snorkel | Cobra 19 DX III CB | 4' Firefly

Building my X


How To: < Remove Rear Sway Bar > < PML > < Re-Index Torsion Bars > < Lokk and Drop >

Last edited by robcarync; 12-02-2012 at 12:59 AM.
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post #16 of 22 Old 12-02-2012, 12:40 AM
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What threw me off was you calling out your UCA... And not calling them stock UCA's like you have in your later posts..
I didnt want noobs thinking this was a part of the PML... No harm no foul..
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post #17 of 22 Old 12-02-2012, 01:25 AM
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No problem man...just wanted to make sure I clarified what I was saying and my reasoning to consider them.


2004 Xterra 4X4

32" Cooper Discoverer ATP | Lokked and Dropped Front Diff |2.125" Lift Shackles | 3" UCA's | 3" Bils | 2" BL | TC IAB | Bandit 4x4 Idler Arm Bushings | Custom Bumpers | Shrock Sliders | RSB Delete | Snorkel | Cobra 19 DX III CB | 4' Firefly

Building my X


How To: < Remove Rear Sway Bar > < PML > < Re-Index Torsion Bars > < Lokk and Drop >
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post #18 of 22 Old 12-02-2012, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowx16 View Post
I am doing my pml over winter break and i cant decide between the calmini shackles or the AC adjustable. Only reason i am not going to get AC's regular shackles is because i have heard they tend to run a bit longer than usual. I know that i will not have much adjustment left in the front, as i have already leveled my truck, so i may gain roughly a .5"-.75". So i am just looking for advice on what to do. Also any pics of a pml with adjustable shackles at the 1" setting would be great. I cant seem to locate any on the internet or on the forum.
Or just specifically call AC when you order and tell them that you want the holes exactly 6" OC apart... Mine were 6 3/4" so i added a hole (after checking w/ ac) which worked out since i only got ~1inch lift up front... But main point is to just specifically order them how u want them...

<img src=http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu67/pro2amend/x2-v2copy.jpg border=0 alt= />

Greg
AC PML, DIY 2" BL, AC IAB, Rancho Steering stabilizer, HooHaa Centerlink, Moog TREs with AC HD TRAs, K&N Drop In w/ resonators removed, Goodyear Wrangler DuraTracs 285/75/16 on stock rims, Bilstein 5100s, removed rear sway bar, full syn, B&M tranny cooler


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post #19 of 22 Old 12-02-2012, 09:59 AM Thread Starter
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I understood what you were saying rob, i think the adjustable shackle may be the way to go. Then i can leave it at the 1" setting for a few months then when im ready for uca, install them and adjust the rear to the 2 1/8" height and i will be set. This will definitely save me some money and my truck already rides stiff enough so id rather not stiffen the spring pack. Truck looks good by the way Rob that body lift made a huge difference.

Exterior:
Custom rear bumper and tire carrier, ARB Front Winch bumper, Calmini PML, 2" Body Lift, HID projector retrofitted headlights, 4 5" pro comp spot lights on custom light bar, 2 6" Pro Comp lights converted to HID, 2 Rigid Industries Dually flood lights, 31x10.50416 BFG A/T on 16x8 Vision Wheel Warrior
Performance:
K&N Cold Air Intake, Flowmaster super 44 muffler, full replacement exhaust
Build-http://www.clubxterra.org/forums/sho...d.php?p=510153
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post #20 of 22 Old 12-02-2012, 11:25 AM
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I know there is alot of good opinions on here but just recently I did the PML on the front only. On a stock xterra the back end is 2" higher to start with. I just cranked up the front, made the truck level and it looks sooooo much nicer, braking is way better(no nose diving) and handles way better. With the truck level I just think it looks better. Any other brand of truck(ford, jeep, toyota) they tend to be level. With 1.5" lift on the front I gain the wheel clearance and some slightly in the back that was already to start with. Just my 2 cents for the day.
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