The basic design I see is:

2 or 3 connections to the frame, then 3 tube/square connections to a 2-3 inch wide square tube then a 1" - 2" tube as a step.

My question is this, Why not just have a plate between 3/16" - 5/8" (strength protection varies) welded to the 2 or 3 connections that bolt to the frame? That way you have the step and the protection all in 1. Is it the weight that's the issue here? What am I not getting"

The basic design I see is:

2 or 3 connections to the frame, then 3 tube/square connections to a 2-3 inch wide square tube then a 1" - 2" tube as a step.

My question is this, Why not just have a plate between 3/16" - 5/8" (strength protection varies) welded to the 2 or 3 connections that bolt to the frame? That way you have the step and the protection all in 1. Is it the weight that's the issue here? What am I not getting"

Weight vs gain in strength vs tendency to accumulate detritus.

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean as far as that plate replacing the tubes that protrude outwards, or, reinforcing them (Welded to fill the gaps between the tubes).

If you mean reinforcing them, it would, but not enough to be worth the weight penalty, and, it would be a shelf under your door that would have a giant pile of mud, sticks, and whatever else on it that you drove though that day, etc. (Versions with a MESH or GRATING do exist though, as this will at least allow drainage)

If you mean that the shelf replaced the tubes, it would be very difficult to brace it such that it would resist the expected forces, especially in an upwards vector.

A flat sheet of steel is strong in tension, but weak to perpendicular forces...which is WHY tubes (Strongest) or boxed rails (Weaker than tube but stronger than flat sheet, and, a lot easier to fabricate) are used for sliders.

:wink-big:

You answered my real question although I neglected to actually ask it...lol

Your use of the word 'shelf' is what I should have used, and my concern was drainage. The perpendicular forces is what I'm not aware of. Thanks for that information.

To create a usable step for me (BIG AZZ FEET) and still be able to actually stand on it (I'm not the smallest person around) is my concern here. The mesh concept is what I was trying to figure out. I'm putting thoughts to paper and comming up with "what if's" and "is that possible". I think the sliders are a done deal now, Thanks.

A good slider design does a couple of things for you...protects the pinch seams at the bottom, and, curves up to protect the rocker panels.

They can also work as a step...but the compromise between the nice flat shelf/step, and the curve to come up to protect the rocker panels w/o stealing ground clearance...is always hanging there.

The ones that make good steps go straight out...and those are the easiest to MAKE...but they are in the way off road, stealing clearance.

The ones that work best AS SLIDERS, go out enough to clear the rockers, and then go up to protect them....making less room for big feet.


A boxed section gives a flat step, but is weaker than a round tube for the same weight and wall thickness (A boxes' wall thickness has to be ~ 1/3 THICKER to have the SAME strength as a round tube).


For me, the compromise is to use the round tube, but apply herculiner to it...which gives a very tough, but rubbery/grippy step surface.


I find I rarely used the slider AS a step, as due to the rig's height, I tended to just jump in, OVER the rail anyway.

People who make the step stick out further find they are always getting their pant leg (Or actual leg) dirty on it, as they too tend to step over it rather than on it most of the time, getting in/out.


I do use it as a step to get stuff on the roof, and in deep water, to walk around the rig instead of wading in the water, etc....which works fine.



If you take a step stool or an upsidedown 5 gal bucket, etc...and some wood spacers/sheets, etc...and put it against the X about where your step might go...you can experiment with how far out from the rockers you NEED it to stick...to work for YOU.

:wink-big:

Then that leads me to this question... What is the thickest tube size and wall thickness that can still be bent (rolled) to a 90 degree or possible 180 degree angle for use as a rear bumper?

I ask because this is leaning back to a concept I drew up a while ago but stopped because of the bumpette replacement idea. I think I might have found the solution.

Then that leads me to this question... What is the thickest tube size and wall thickness that can still be bent (rolled) to a 90 degree or possible 180 degree angle for use as a rear bumper?

I ask because this is leaning back to a concept I drew up a while ago but stopped because of the bumpette replacement idea. I think I might have found the solution.

LOL

THAT depends on what tube bending equipment you have.

Most people get DOM tube for this type of thing....and just order the length/radius that they need...for the bends.

They can then weld those bends onto straight sections if feasible, or, oder the part as needed from the get go, etc.


Bending thick walled tube is hard, very hard, especially if you don't want it to kink.



Think about this:


I have come down on my sliders hard, I might do a 3' drop off a ledge onto one slider for example.

My rig weighs ~ 6,000 lb on the truck scale when loaded up for work.

That's 6,000 lb dropping ~ 3', @ 32' per second per second, not counting the starting speed as I propelled myself off into the abyss, etc.


Force =Mass X Acceleration. (F=MA)


If you consider the difference between placing a hammer on your big toe, and dropping that hammer from 3' up, down ONTO your big toe...that's the force/damage multiplication we're fighting against.


:D


So, if your bender can apply MORE force than 6,000 lb dropping 3', and bends the tube into shape, but that's BARELY ENOUGH to get it to bend.....

Then the drop will bend it TOO.

:D


Food for thought.

Tj, I love the way you explain things, lol.

X2, creepy

it's like a wiki article with a sense of humor
...
and copious emoticons

my Shrock sliders get my pants dirty all the time...lol

I understand the basic high school science of F=MA. However, the purpose of sliders as I understand it to be is to minimize the damage from an extreme situation. Using your example 6000 lbs from 3' no reasonable constructed slider would completely protect at much of any speed.

The purpose of my question about wall thickness and tube sizing was in an attempt to maximize the weight to strength ratio for a bumper in regards to DOM tubing vs. steel plates vs. channels vs. square tubing vs. rectangle tubing while using that same tubing for the sliders. Because the more I buy of 1 type the more of a discount I can get.

I understand the basic high school science of F=MA. However, the purpose of sliders as I understand it to be is to minimize the damage from an extreme situation. Using your example 6000 lbs from 3' no reasonable constructed slider would completely protect at much of any speed.

The purpose of my question about wall thickness and tube sizing was in an attempt to maximize the weight to strength ratio for a bumper in regards to DOM tubing vs. steel plates vs. channels vs. square tubing vs. rectangle tubing while using that same tubing for the sliders. Because the more I buy of 1 type the more of a discount I can get.

LOL

I'm not sure what the "HS Science" thing was referring to.....unless merely making sure we knew it wasn't news to you?

(I DO include extra info in most posts, because many OTHERS are reading the thread too...and it helps THEM, even if you don't really need the same support, etc...its more of a public service, after all, some of the readers were products of the Tennessee educational system, and, THEY have notified me that they REQUIRE the added info)





And, the point is that a reasonably constructed slider CAN stand up to that, that's EXACTLY what the Shrock took as a beating, and came back for more.


So, based upon your desire for getting the most of one type of tube....do all DOM I suppose, but its harder to mount DOM to the frame rail...but you can certainly make brackets with gussets, etc, to do it.

:wink-big:

But remember, to actually get the 6000lbs + falling speed your truck would be falling and *only* hitting the slider. Since it would be an extreme case that no other wheel or part of the X would be holding any weight, I'm pretty sure that'd be a roll over/fall down a hill and having the slider hit a rock first on landing before any other part of the X, which would bring other damage into the picture lol

Sent from my GT-I9000 using AutoGuide App

But remember, to actually get the 6000lbs + falling speed your truck would be falling and *only* hitting the slider. Since it would be an extreme case that no other wheel or part of the X would be holding any weight, I'm pretty sure that'd be a roll over/fall down a hill and having the slider hit a rock first on landing before any other part of the X, which would bring other damage into the picture lol

Sent from my GT-I9000 using AutoGuide App

Sometimes that is true....but typically, you slam on one side and then ricochet off the other, etc.

The last time I did the above, there were two rocks, one taller - both about at my sliders...and I was coming down off a ledge from above them...and hit the taller one first (If I'd had any fillings - they would have popped out, it was a hard hit...)...then the smaller one, and then slide down the rest of the way (It passed for a plan at the time).

:D

Anyway ...I was merely making the point that if HE can bend it, it might bend off road too...as the forces are more than the rig's weight.


MOST sliders are advertised as "Being able to hi-lift from", indicating that one slider can support that side's weight....

But, off road, the rocks don't set up under the slider, and then rise like a jack...

...you tend to come down onto them with some force, far in excess of the rig's weight on that side.


This is why the "Nerf Bars" crumple in a heart beat when used off road...they are too thin walled for anything but a step.

:wink-big:

I hate to be that guy but I want to make sure that no one thinks the force exerted by TJs rig is F = (6000lbs x 32ft/s^2). That 6000lbs from the scale represents the normal force exerted against your truck. It is not a mass to plug in to F= m x a.
I am sure I just read the post a little funny, but in my background I have seen many people mix up mass and weight so it became one of those things that I was conditioned to look for.

of course this also depends on the type of scale as well.

I hate to be that guy but I want to make sure that no one thinks the force exerted by TJs rig is F = (6000lbs x 32ft/s^2). That 6000lbs from the scale represents the normal force exerted against your truck. It is not a mass to plug in to F= m x a.
I am sure I just read the post a little funny, but in my background I have seen many people mix up mass and weight so it became one of those things that I was conditioned to look for.

of course this also depends on the type of scale as well.

LOL

Sometimes you have to just let some stuff slide to avoid diluting the actual point...

IE: That coming down onto something puts more force on it than just the rig's weight.

And, yes, the mass vs weight thing is NORMALLY a trigger for me too, albeit I let it slide on this to avoid diluting the point.


:engel-big:

What is the best size round tube for sliders? Wall and overall. I've seen a few I like w/ a kickout (Drake for one) but no size were mentioned.

:wink-big:

Look here

http://www.clubxterra.org/forums/showthread.php?t=30866

Look here

http://www.clubxterra.org/forums/showthread.php?t=30866

I saw this. It's what caused me to ask my question. I was just wondering if the square tubing were replaced by round, did it have to have a thicker wall size since it was the inner part and receive more of the impact rather than the outer piece that would seemingly be more of a step and get less direct contact with an obstacle. I quess I'm over thinking it.

Thanks just the same.

I thought after " m c " was " hammer ".....?