:boese-big:
So I have a 2005 Xterra 4X4 Off-Road with a 6 speed it has like 90,000 miles on it. I drove to work in the morning and then left like an hour later with a buddy to go to the store. When we were leaving I started it back up and it turned over and stalled with in 2 seconds of starting. It then would not start back up. I thought maybe it might be out of gas because the light was on but i am familar with how far it can go before it runs out because i have ran out a few times with it and i didn't think it was there yet. So to be safe i went and got some gas and put it in and it still would not start. It cranks just fine. It does not really chug or sound like is missing. It might make a slight high pitch hiss or something to that effect but that is all. It really showed no indications of having any issues before this incident.

The only thing that it really did that was out of the ordinarry was when it was idleing it made a different high pitch hiss or howel. It sounded like a buzzing but not like a elecrtical kind of buzzing but maybe a mechanical kind of buzzing. If that makes any sense. I never really thought much of it because it ran fine.

Other then that it was normal before today. I just put a new clutch in it and replaced the Universal joint about 5,000 miles ago. Which ran me like $2,000. So I am seriously hoping it is not the damn timing belt. I looked at previous posts and they said that you can check the timing belt by taking the cap off the rotor to see if it spins when it is cranked? Any and all other ideas of what is wrong with it would be appreciated. Oh and how to fix it! I really don't want to drop a lot of money on it again. This car really has been well maintained. Any info would be greatly appreciated!
:teary:

Oh does this year have a timing chain? Just realized it probably does?

Yes it has a timing chain so no worries on that. Maybe the distributor crapped out on you but I would let some other guys chime in on other possibilities. The buzzing might have been the guts of the distributor destroying itself and now it's officially toast.

how hard is it to change the distributor?? I never have before but i am some what mechnically inclined? How do I check if it is the distributor? Can you buy them at most auto parts stores?

They aren't difficult and you can find replacements at most if not all auto parts stores. As for checking it, you could visually inspect it by removing the cap to see if everything is still intact. If there's nothing visually wrong, it can still be bad but I'm not sure how to test it any further.

No distributor on a 2005. VQ engines have electronic ignition.

You may have clogged up your fuel filter by running the tank empty several times. You really should try to avoid running your tank dry to keep all the particulate matter that inevitably ends up in fuel tanks from being sucked up by the fuel pump and clogging the filter. I would suggest a new fuel filter and fresh gas.

No distributor on a 2005. VQ engines have electronic ignition.

You may have clogged up your fuel filter by running the tank empty several times. You really should try to avoid running your tank dry to keep all the particulate matter that inevitably ends up in fuel tanks from being sucked up by the fuel pump and clogging the filter. I would suggest a new fuel filter and fresh gas.

Damn! I've got to brush up on my 2nd gen knowledge for sure. Thanks for correcting me J.

I missed the part where you said you had run the tank dry a few times. It will also foul your spark plugs by running it empty.

how hard is it to change the distributor?? I never have before but i am some what mechnically inclined? How do I check if it is the distributor? Can you buy them at most auto parts stores?

Do you have a timing light? If so, you can clip it to the plug wires to see if firing while you have someone turning it over.
Just off the top of my head.

Good luck!
rob g.

wow im confused now. So im looking up info about this and i've come along a few places that say that the 2005 4.0L is a distributorless ignition system. It says it just has coil packs? Is this correct or is there a distributor that is different from the conventional distributor's?

The coil packs and the ECU control the spark, there is no distributor at all.

So all the talk about having a bad distributor is for 04 and older xterra's? So that puts me back at square one? So are the coil packs possibly bad? What else can I possibly check? fuel pump? what are the common colprets?

fuel pump/sending unit?

Yep, all the bad distributor talk is for first gen Xterras, specifically the '00 and '01, but the others have distributors as well. 2005+ has the VQ40 engine with a distributorless ignition. Never heard of a coil pack going bad. Fuel pump, maybe, but haven't heard of any of those going bad in 2nd gens either. Like I said, check your filter first.

Is the starter turning the engine over? Or is it just clicking?

..Fuel pump, maybe, but haven't heard of any of those going bad in 2nd gens either. Like I said, check your filter first.

....

doesnt mean it can't happen

It's your IPDM

doesnt mean it can't happen

Very true.


It's your IPDM

That's a pretty common failure in Titans, isn't it? How hard is it to change out?

? about titans, but Pathfinders, ex-terrah's, and Frontiers it is. All the 4.o engines. It is not incredibly difficult at all, but it is not cheap.

Found this over on the a Titan board. Switch the ECM relay & the fog lamp relay and see if it will start.
http://www.titanspot.com/Titan/index.php?showtopic=8604&hl=idpm

Had similar symptoms where the engine would just crank and crank but not start and couldnt figure out for the life of me what was wrong! and then it went to a shop and they found that one of my O2 sensors wires melted together on the exhaust and basically grounded everything they just spliced and taped them away from the exhaust and ran just fine so could possibly be your problem just giving you another idea

ok so i checked the fuses and what not with not one of them having been blown.

But here is the thing. I decided I would buy some starting fluid to see if it would help anything at all. So i sprayed it in the air box and it started idled for a few seconds before stalling out. I tried to start it again with no luck. So i sprayed a shit load of it in the air boxagain and like the first time it started. When I gave it gas it started to rev then stalled. Again I sprayed more but this time when I gave it gas it reved up for a couple seconds and then stalled. So I was able to start it but could not get it to run without starting fluid. SO???????????????? What does this mean???????????? Fuel Pump? Or that electrical thing?

Get a fuel pressure gauge (if you dont have one you can rent one a VatoZone) and you will know if its anything to do with the fuel filter or pump. Or have someone turn the key to the on position and lay under your car by the gas tank and see if you can hear it turn on.

After you have spent money on all that other stuff, try the IPDM.

ok so i checked the fuses and what not with not one of them having been blown.

I agree with soccerbrace. Its not a fuse its a relay, so you cant tell if its bad just by looking at it. Try swapping the relays and see if that will get it going. Go to the link in post 18 and read about it. Sounds a lot like the problem your having.
I'm curious about this problem myself because I have a 2nd gen.
Hope you get it worked out.

Oh i thought you said a relay but where do i find a diagram for the relays?? I pulled out both covers under the hood and did not see any relays labeled with IPDM or fog lamps for that matter? I did however see a fuse that was for fog lamps and ECM or ECI. I forget. So where is the relay diagram???

The IPDM is the whole thing.

What James said. The entire fuse block. IPDM = Intelligent Power Distribution Module. It is the whole panel with all of the fuses/relays in it under the hood. I bet it ain't cheap.

Found this over on the a Titan board. Switch the ECM relay & the fog lamp relay and see if it will start.
http://www.titanspot.com/Titan/index.php?showtopic=8604&hl=idpm


So this is what im confused about then? The ECM and the fog lamp are relays not fuses in the xterra? Because when i pulled the cover last night there was a fuse for both the ECM and the fog lamps and they were both 20V fuses? I did not see a relay for either of those ? Am I wrong are there relays for them also>?

about $800, and a 10 minute job.

Gimme ten minutes, sander, and I'll go look on my truck and find it for you.

There are no fuel filters on second gen. You are either missing spark or fuel because both of those are controlled by the IPDM.

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/evolucion7/Xterra/2009-12-27_060332_IPDM_Ecm_Relay.jpg

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/evolucion7/Xterra/ECMRelay.jpg

There are no fuel filters on second gen. You are either missing spark or fuel because both of those are controlled by the IPDM.

No fuel filter? That's different. I wonder why they did that.

Well im damn near positive that it is not getting fuel because it started just fine with starting fluid. but when i gave it gas it would stall out

That is awesome J! I will check that in a bit when I go back to my truck! It is stuck in front of a pharmacy in town here. Not good. Plus i am in michigan and it is like 20 degrees here and the wind is blowing at like 25 mph. So it is gonna be a cold one! I hope the bastard starts!

You'll have to undo the two slide lock tabs on the side and slide out the entire module (it's really easy), and probably have to unplug all those harnesses to get to the relays, but if you can swap out the ECM and Fog lamp relays, it might start up enough to get you to an auto parts shop to get a new relay. If that doesn't work, you may have to replace the entire IPDM. James is a Nissan tech, so he knows what he's talking 'bout, Willis! I just thought it would be best to try the cheapest fix first before you spend $800.


Also, you may want to avoid using starter fluid in the future. Modern gas engines don't really like how fast ether burns, and they tend to get pissy about it. It may even set off a misfire code.

Another thing you can try is jiggling the relays.

ahhh i really didn't know that about starting fluid but i really just wanted to see if it was getting spark. Which i believe it is. I don't hear the fuel pump turning on? Would the ECM cause it not too get gas but to get spark? That appears to be where I am at right now. I hope it starts after I swap the relays. We will see!

Then it's your fuel pump relay IN your IPDM. You should try switching relays. The relays are technically not servicable, but you can wiggle them out if you are careful.

BTW, they are not labeled because they do not want you working on them.

well that makes a lot more sense now! So I hate to ask like a broken record but where is the fuel pump relay in the mess? I take it is different then the ECM relay? So you really don't think it is the fuel pump itself? I guess you are a tech so you know you stuff! So I am guessing that you have never seen a fuel pump that needed to be replaced it was always electrical? Now as soon as I find the fuel pump relay I will be golden hopefully.

Look on the underside of the cover and you'll find a diagram.

The diagram only shows fuse and fusible link locations. The relays aren't marked.

no they def. are not marked! and I am looking in the service manual and I cannot read a wiring diagram to save my life. I mean in the diagram that you posted earlier Jason there is no fuel pump relay but the page before the one you posted in the service manual shows a throttle control motor relay followed by a fuel pump relay. These are not in the correct order as they are layed out in the vehicle but however the current travels through them or something like that. I mean for the most part they are in order but not in position. If that makes sense. It probably doesn't! Im doing the best I can. Luckily it looks like the wind died so when I am done with work in a few I am going to take a crack at it.

Another note, in the diagram posted earlier it only shows 4 relays on the top but when you look at it in the picture posted there are five? Is there actually six relays on the bottom row and that is where the other two relays for the fuel pump and the throttle control motor? I have no idea but I hope someone does?!!?!?!? I also hope after all this information gathering that it solves my problem and it isn't just the damn fuel pump!

I just went out and looked at mine. If you look at the diagram Jason posted the left is the bottom with 4 relays. That is where the relays you need to swap are at. If you push on the tabs that whole white block will raise up and give you a little more room.
Hope it works.

5 on the top, 4 on the bottom. You'll see when you pop the cover off. The photo I posted was of my actual IPDM, so you can see the arrow is pointing down under the wires. I posted the diagram so that you can see which of the four relays on the bottom is the ECM relay.

As far as the fuel pump relay, I've no idea where that's located. The throttle control motor is attached to the throttle body (don't know where that relay is either), because the Xterra is drive by wire (no throttle cable connecting pedal to throttle body). I would start with the ECM relay before worrying about anything else. Hope this little bit of extra info help.

Look at your top row of fuses-do you see where the one on the drivers side is? 20A fog lamp?

Ok, locate that. You see the black relays below it? from left to right, consider those

A-B-C-D-E

and then continue on with the lower 4

F-G-H-I

E is the ignition relay,

and

G- is the ECM relay.

I have seem both of those go out.

The ECM relay is what I was referring to as the fuel pump relay and that is what I suspect is the problem.

F is your rear window defogger

G is your ECM relay.

If your rear window defogger is working, then that relay is working.

If that relay is working, you can attempt to swap those two. If you swap those two and your truck works, then you know that the relay was bad.

If it does NOT work, start investigating your fuel pump.:)

FYI, this is a temporary fix. I do not even know (nor does the NISSAN site tell us) what amperage the relays are, so as soon as you get a chance, you need to swap them back and get the ECM relay if you can. I have heard that you must replace the entire IPDM, and I have heard that the relays are available separately.

Any news?

Well thanks for all the help guys! But unfortunenitly I do not have an answer for you! When I got to my truck last night at 7 pm the damn cops were all ready there getting ready to tow the damn thing! I was surprised mainly because I talked to them the day before explaining my situation and said I would have out of there by last night well I guess it wasn't soon enough because they called to have it towed! So I had no chance to work on it! I had to barder with the tow truck guy and the cop not to have it impounded! We are AAA members and i was going to have them tow it if I couldn't fix it. So I had to just pay the tow truck guy $50 to tow it to my local repair shop. I thought about having it towed to my house but I thought if I couldn't fix it I would just have to have it towed again. So i will have an answer tonight about what is exactly wrong with it. I am just hoping they don't tell me it needs something when reallly it was just the relay all along. We will see. Wish it was summer I would be much more ambishious to figure it out on my own.

I will let you all know what the problem was!

Thanks Again!

print this page out and hand it to them dude. It will probably save you money.

Damn, that sux. Good thing you got there when you did or you would have been out a lot more $.