The last couple winters here in Des Moines were pretty nasty compared to what I’m used to in Illinois (coupled with the way people try to drive 75mph on a snow covered highway between Des Moines and Ames) so I was wondering what kind of tow rope I should get to help get people out of ditches?

I also need something for when I get stuck while mudding.

So far I’ve just relied on whatever other people have had, but now I want to get my own stuff.

Aren’t there 2 kinds of ropes?
1 is tow ropes that don’t stretch, and the other is nylon ones that do stretch, correct?

what material are the kind that don’t stretch made out of? Which would be best for pulling people out of snowy ditches? should the rope have hooks, or not?

I just have a couple of tow straps without hooks. I think they are both rated for 15,000lbs or so, it could be 12k. I have 2 of equal length, then I have a longer strap in case I need the extra distance.

I have about a 20 or 25 foot tow strap with the hooks that have the little spring clasp
on it. I do like that style but in some situations it is a little long. So this is what I would do:

Get at least 2 long ones, 20 or 25 ft. and 1 short one, 10 or 15 ft. And then you will have something for different situations. The hook or not is really up to you, I like the hook cause if there is nothing on the car to hook to you can wrap it around something and hook it on itself. Had to do it just the other day.

The hooks are dangerous, stick with a tow strap with shackles. If you need to you can always loop the strap through the end loop if there is no other option. Chains are something else to leave at home.

Recovery straps are the ones that streatch, tow straps do not, or at least no where near as much.

Also a shovel might be a good thing to pack with you.

there was a video on here a while ago of a strap that had a hook snapped and embedded its self into the rear hatch of a truck. another went threw the spare tire. now imagine if that was a person not the truck... yeah bad idea.

I never really thought of them snapping like that...that is scary.
Now I don't want them anymore.
But how do you connect it without the hook? Do you just tie them to something?

I wonder if I can cut the hooks off the ones I have now?
If I cut the strap at each end will it still be good to use like that?

Did I just Hi-Jack this thread?
Am I asking too many questions?

Go find some D Rings. Most cars have shipping hooks and you can find some rings that will go into that. For snow it will be fine, I always try to find a place to wrap around the frame using a D Ring to secure it like a lasso.

Oh and just simply forget the hooks they are useless and dangerous fore recovery.

I never really thought of them snapping like that...that is scary.
Now I don't want them anymore.
But how do you connect it without the hook? Do you just tie them to something?

Straps without the hooks have loops on each end. You can either slip the loop over a recovery point like a tow hook or through a clevis shackle. If there is neither then loop it around something like a frame crossmember or another solid anchor point and pull one end of the strap through the loop on the other end.

I wonder if I can cut the hooks off the ones I have now?
If I cut the strap at each end will it still be good to use like that?

Cutting any kind of strap will hurt it's strength/load capacity. Never use one that has been cut. It's an accident waiting to happen.

Did I just Hi-Jack this thread?
Am I asking too many questions?

Yes and Yes ;)

I fully recommend a recovery strap over a tow strap. I use a Pro Comp recovery strap that is 3" x 30ft and rated at 30,000 lbs. They are pricey yes but it's worth the extra money to save yourself the risk of damaging your vehicle, the other vehicle or someone standing nearby. The stretching of the straps absorb the initial shock load on the strap which minimizes the chance of the strap snapping.

Prices really arent that bad.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CNGS56

http://www.amazon.com/Explorer-Pro-Comp-330000-Towstrap-30/dp/B000CN9ZTW/ref=pd_sim_auto_2

A twenty thousand pound strap should be find for most any vehicle smaller than yours.

Also another option is a Kinetic Strap... very very nice straps but very very expensive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JBnxSqpuCM

Not too bad!

I carry a 10,000 lb test tow strap with closed loop ends, two clevises, a folding T-handle snow shovel, some flares, blanket, thermal emergency blankets and a good first aid kit. The one in the X is pretty good, but not enough. I also carry a hand-crank emergency flashlight, a regular battery flashlight, and a headlamp to wear while I work.

A side note about the Kinetic strap: After you use it you have to give the strap 24 hours to recover it's elasticity before you use it again.

I carry a 10,000 lb test tow strap with closed loop ends, two clevises, a folding T-handle snow shovel, some flares, blanket, thermal emergency blankets and a good first aid kit. The one in the X is pretty good, but not enough. I also carry a hand-crank emergency flashlight, a regular battery flashlight, and a headlamp to wear while I work.

A side note about the Kinetic strap: After you use it you have to give the strap 24 hours to recover it's elasticity before you use it again.

yeah i had to add some things to the x's first aid kit, and removed some things, basically customized it to my liking, but overall it's a good one. I was thinking it'd be nice to have some things in case i show up to an accident scene and people are lightly injured (broken glass wounds, broken fingers, etc...) especially since i took a first aid class my freshman year. just gotta make sure i don't get sued for helping someone....

also, i always carry a few super bright flashlights and extra batteries, but i'm gonna need to get a small shovel, a small ground tarp, and i'd like to get a headlamp as well.

Did I just Hi-Jack this thread?
Am I asking too many questions?

nope, i'm looking for the same answers as you lol

there was a video on here a while ago of a strap that had a hook snapped and embedded its self into the rear hatch of a truck. another went threw the spare tire. now imagine if that was a person not the truck... yeah bad idea.

yeah if you look on youtube, there's a ton of videos of recovery straps snapping. that's why i wanted to make sure i got the right equipment.

I was thinking about just getting a 2'' 20' recovery strap and some clevis shackles (d-rings, bow shackles, whatever...), but then i've seen all these vids, and it makes me want to at least get a 3'' one.

2" will be fine if it is rated to enough weight.

....just gotta make sure i don't get sued for helping someone....


Check your state law....if there is a Good Samaritin law, you are fine, they can't sue you unless you were negligence in your act.

If there is none, help at your own risk.

^ seconded. If I'm pulling someone out of a snowbank or ditch, I always make them hook up their side of the recovery strap so I don't get sued for damage to their car based on the hookup.

I would say that a 10K lb tow strap is not enough for an Xterra. A good yank can put well over that much stress on it.

Ideally, a winch is one of the best things to have for recovery. Slow and controlled extraction vs. yanking. For some things a strap is quicker. For other things a strap would work fine, but a winch would be better for more control. You have to have good mounts to attach to though.

I don't yank with the strap, I just pull gently with the X. I should get a thicker strap before winter.

I think that mine is 10,000 lb test, I should double check.

How long of a strap are most of you guys using? I've got a 30' 25,000 strap, at times I wonder if its too long for just a simple ditch extraction. Though by this year I should have my winch installed I guess.

How long of a strap are most of you guys using? I've got a 30' 25,000 strap, at times I wonder if its too long for just a simple ditch extraction. Though by this year I should have my winch installed I guess.

Just double it back on itself, that way it is only 15ft.


While I was typing

well, i just got a cool looking 4'' x 25' nylon recovery strap from amazon :)

can't wait to use it. In the future I plan on getting a 15' one as well, that way if i need a shorter one i'll have it, or i can put them together for 40' : )

Now, what's the difference between nylon and polyester straps?

I checked my recovery strap, It's rated for a 10,000 lb load with a 50,000 lb test.

I checked my recovery strap, It's rated for a 10,000 lb load with a 50,000 lb test.

lol i think that'll do the trick! : )

So i guess another question about recovery gear would be: where do/did you guys get a good portable shovel?

I have two, a snow shovel and a dirt shovel.

For the snow shovel, I picked up a lightweight aluminum model with a collapsible handle at a local place called "Recreation Outlet." They are a great shop with incredible prices. The one I got is intended for backpackers and backcountry skiiers and it's a hell of a lot better than the plastic ones you usually see at the auto parts store.

Here is the shovel: http://www.recreationoutlet.com/p-426-aluminum-adventure-shovel.aspx I think it's a bit more than when I bought it, but then again, I bought it in the dead of summer for $17, with people gearing up for winter the price has gone up.

For a dirt shovel, go to your local surplus store and get an Army entrenching tool. Be sure to get the one with the loop-style handle, it gives you better leverage and control than the older straight handle design. Watch out for cheap imitations, however, they break easily and don't dig for shit.

Something like this:http://cgi.ebay.com/US-Military-Army-Entrenching-E-Tool-Shovel-%26-OD-Case-_W0QQitemZ270339115164QQcmdZViewItem

Just go to your local surplus shop and you will easily be able to tell the real one from a knock off. It's a bit harder online.

yeah that's what i was looking for! thanks man!

Yeah, I think having a couple of different length straps would be best.
I have seen situations that needed a real long one and then some that could
have used a short one too.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o312/dpsnodgrass1215/1015090956b.jpg
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o312/dpsnodgrass1215/1015090956c.jpg
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o312/dpsnodgrass1215/1015090956a.jpg

Here's the strap i ended up getting. It's pretty big, probably bigger than i need, but i'd rather it be too big than too small. It's 4'' wide and 25' long. I think it's rated for over 30000 lbs, so that's nice. And it has leather on the loops, and it's stitched very nicely.
I also got some 3/8'' D-Shackles.

This could be a dumb question, but has anyone ever ripped off their tow hitch while pulling someone out? is it ok to use it as a recovery point? I figured I could either loop it around the bar and use a d-shackle to secure the strap to itself, or just put the loop end into the hitch and use the pin to hold it in place, i've seen people do that before and it worked fine.

http://warn.iwebcat.com/_Members/lookups/partdetail.asp

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/6102/shackle.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Just get one of these. I've pulled many people out with one and that was on a unibody Jeep. The X should have no trouble.

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200381901_200381901

yeah, i don't have $380. i'm a poor college student :) after i get a good job next summer i'll get one though. probably just gonna get this one (http://www.ntwonline.com/XRC_8000_ELECTRIC_WINCH_W_ROLL_P14040C308.cfm) and some good quality synthetic line.

http://warn.iwebcat.com/_Members/lookups/partdetail.asp

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/6102/shackle.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Just get one of these. I've pulled many people out with one and that was on a unibody Jeep. The X should have no trouble.

that link didn't work, just me?

Odd, now it's not working for me either. Let me see what I can do for you.

Here is the same product at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Warn-Industries-29312-Receiver-Shackle/dp/B000CQFUQ6

that one works, thanks!

You have to remenber, the winch is the cheap part. Mounting it is where the real money comes into play.

I use OLD (RETIRED) climbing rope as my "straps" there are two kinds static which doesn't stretch and dynamic which does. I don't use dynamic rope for vehicles, a tow strap is much better suited, but static rope works great. The difference is in how the rope is made or laidup. For pulling with a car I use a dynamic tow strap about 15ft. and for winching I use a 9/16ths static line which is 100ft long. I tie it to the truck, then use a Z-drag and high lift if I need ALOT of force. I once did this and set a 27:1 mechanical advantage which embedded a carabiner in an oak tree. This is all with out a mechanical winch. Just knowing knot tricks can unstick alot of cars, and throw a high lift in and you can get more than any winch could dream of, but it's not nearly as quick. However it isn't much of a problem on the lower mechanical advantage z:drags (3:1-9:1).

I use OLD (RETIRED) climbing rope as my "straps" there are two kinds static which doesn't stretch and dynamic which does. I don't use dynamic rope for vehicles, a tow strap is much better suited, but static rope works great. The difference is in how the rope is made or laidup. For pulling with a car I use a dynamic tow strap about 15ft. and for winching I use a 9/16ths static line which is 100ft long. I tie it to the truck, then use a Z-drag and high lift if I need ALOT of force. I once did this and set a 27:1 mechanical advantage which embedded a carabiner in an oak tree. This is all with out a mechanical winch. Just knowing knot tricks can unstick alot of cars, and throw a high lift in and you can get more than any winch could dream of, but it's not nearly as quick. However it isn't much of a problem on the lower mechanical advantage z:drags (3:1-9:1).

Im sorry, run that by me again.

Then again, please don't repeat that cause it will just make me more
confused then I already am.

Thanks for playing.

I'm just saying you can spend a few grand on a winch and I'll produce more force for under 200 bucks.

What happened to the good old fashioned cum-a-long? In place of a winch. If you're pulling someone out of the snow, deep snow like we get (350inches/year). You have to either put some slack in the line and hit the gas. Thats where the recovery strap comes into play, or chock the tires of the extraction vehicle and use a winch or cum-a-long. There is no way around either of those 2 options, your tires will just spin. So I am a fan of the flexible straps and the climbing rope is also a good idea especially if you have enough to braid it and put some good loops on the end. I've told people who are stuck(mostly tourists up here to ski) to put your head against your headrest cuz im gonna HIT THE GAS! That is one of my favorite parts about winter, asking some tourist(we call them tourons) "How in the hell did you get that rental car to do THAT?"

I'm just saying you can spend a few grand on a winch and I'll produce more force for under 200 bucks.

can you show me some links, and pics of what you use so i can get a similar setup?

can climbing rope really withstand the force and weight of pulling someone out?

I would like to see the winch that would cost a few grand???

That and considering that a 8k smittybuilt runs $300. and a snatch block runs around around $60. I highley doubt it that a climbing rope is as capable as a wire rope for holding 16,000 lbs. I am not saying that using the rope is a bad idea, all that I am saying is that a winch is a better solution for recovering a car than a climbing rope, no matter how many pullies you put on it.

There is a reason that tow trucks have winches instead of ropes.

Between buying a winch, wiring it, fair leads, wire / rope, a decent bumper to hold it, all the stuff, you could very easily put a good chunk of change into having a winch. I will admit that a tow truck that is specially built to pull things would have a big winch on it, that makes sense. But we don't drive tow trucks, we drive Xterras. Also if you didn't think that a synthetic rope was up to the task of pulling cars out, why do they make synthetic winch lines? I'm not trying to be a dick, my way works and it's cheap, I've yet to be in a situation that I couldn't handle with what I have. If you want to throw some more weight on your truck and spend the money for a winch then thats your way of doing things. I am a whitewater guide on the gauley river in WVA as well as a rockclimber, so if somebody sticks a raft I don't have a winch to pull it out, nor could I even get a truck down there to it so I know ways to apply force with only a few things, like rope carabiners and oars.

Now I would not use a dynamic climbing rope in place of a tow strap, a tow strap is specially made to take the stretch and force of the car pulling. However a static load like winching is just what a static rope is made for. It's made out of dyneema, which is what many synthetic winch lines are made of. for the 1/2in size that I use it's nearly a 25,000lb tensile strength, which is stronger than steel of the same size. The reason tow trucks don't use synthetic line is because over time it is uv degraded and won't take the abuse and sharp edges. The gross weight of an xterra is lets say 4300lbs so you could literally dangle two 2 xterras from both ends and still have a few thousand pounds to play with.

More on what I was talking about:

Here is the link to a z-drag, It is essentially a glorified block and tackle, it can be piggybacked to produce more leverage. It's commonly used in whitewater rescue to unstick pinned boats with thousands of pounds of water pushing against them. The prussic knots it talks about are a knot that will hold the rope when loaded and then you can slide them to adjust the load once it gets closer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z-drag

You can also use a high lift jack in winch mode to help add some more force.

Here is a link to a good article on the highlift and explaining how to use it as a winch:

http://www.bb4wa.com/articles/hilift_jack.htm

Another method in addition to the z-drag to get some more force is called a vector pull. Anchor a rope between the truck and a fixed object on the side, such as a sturdy tree or large boulder. Use a second rope to pull at right angles to the first rope. The vector forces generated by this method greatly amplify the force exerted between the truck anchor. At 10 degrees of deflection, 100 lb of pull translates to about 500 lbs on the truck.

A side note about the Kinetic strap: After you use it you have to give the strap 24 hours to recover it's elasticity before you use it again.

Where did you learn this? I have yet to hear about this. I know that our Super Yankers require no time in between uses and stretch up to 30% during correct use, they work very well for doing static or dynamic tugs. I would never jerk or yank a vehicle out with a tow strap, these don't stretch and the jerk you feel while you are pulling the vehicle out can damage the recovery equipment or either of the vehicles.

-Alex

Now I would not use a dynamic climbing rope in place of a tow strap, a tow strap is specially made to take the stretch and force of the car pulling. However a static load like winching is just what a static rope is made for. It's made out of dyneema, which is what many synthetic winch lines are made of. for the 1/2in size that I use it's nearly a 25,000lb tensile strength, which is stronger than steel of the same size. The reason tow trucks don't use synthetic line is because over time it is uv degraded and won't take the abuse and sharp edges. The gross weight of an xterra is lets say 4300lbs so you could literally dangle two 2 xterras from both ends and still have a few thousand pounds to play with.

Tow straps are not meant to stretch like a KERR (Kinetic Energy Recovery Rope), straps are meant for towing think flat tow - no jerking actions involved! Winch lines are 12 strand ropes made of SK75 Dyneema fiber, unless they are a special heat resistant rope. Are you really using a 1/2 inch Dyneema rope for climbing? Here is our link with breaking strengths of some of the synthetic ropes and steel cable for a few different sizes: http://www.masterpull.com/cpage.cfm?cpid=197

Synthetics work well for many uses; off-road, marine industries, industrial and construction, as well as the military. The reason you don't see many tow trucks running them is the cost, synthetic ropes are more expensive but the cost is worth it when you take into account all of the ways that synthetics are safer then steel cable.

-Alex

Master Pull,

Well like I said two types of climbing rope: Dynamic which is what you actually climb with which stretch like a KERR, I wouldn't use those for pulling offroad, as a KERR is much better suited, sorry for my incorrect terminology between KERR and towstrap. However sometimes a static line is used, which is made of dyneema, nylon, spectra-fiber, kevlar, etc. This can either be used for setting up an anchor system to climb off of, or to rappel. The static rope is really the workhorse of climbing, where as the dynamic line is used only to catch falls, using a belay system. If you try to climb with a static line attached to your harness and take a big fall it will break your back. So I use dyneema in climbing applications not actually climbing per say.

Master Pull,

Well like I said two types of climbing rope: Dynamic which is what you actually climb with which stretch like a KERR, I wouldn't use those for pulling offroad, as a KERR is much better suited, sorry for my incorrect terminology between KERR and towstrap.

You want to use a Dynamic rope, or a KERR (both ropes stretch) off-road, I don't understand why you are against this. Dynamic ropes are better suited for off-road use then say a static rope (tow strap) or a chain because they stretch. The stretching action absorbs the jerking actions that you are common in an off-road recovery, especially if the stuck vehicle is buried in snow or mud.

However sometimes a static line is used, which is made of dyneema, nylon, spectra-fiber, kevlar, etc. This can either be used for setting up an anchor system to climb off of, or to rappel. The static rope is really the workhorse of climbing, where as the dynamic line is used only to catch falls, using a belay system. If you try to climb with a static line attached to your harness and take a big fall it will break your back. So I use dyneema in climbing applications not actually climbing per say.

I agree with most of this, except what you are saying about nylon being static. Our Super Yanker ropes (KERR) are made of a nylon double braid, this stretches up to 30% during use, which alleviates the jerking actions that are common with hard off-road pulls.

-Alex

Master Pull-

The the First part, I'm not opposed, I Think that KERRs are indispensable and work really great for car-car pulling. I wouldn't replace a KERR with a dynamic climbing rope as climbing ropes are rated for a certain number of "falls" based on the amount of force created, and they wouldn't come back to original elasticity like the KERR would.

To the Second part Nylon would be a lower grade static rope, which can stretch up to 4% It depends more on the way the rope is laid up, For instance a nylon dynamic has a braided sheath and a twisted core to allow stretch and a static is braided inside braided, for several layers to attempt to limit stretch.

To the Second part Nylon would be a lower grade static rope, which can stretch up to 4% It depends more on the way the rope is laid up, For instance a nylon dynamic has a braided sheath and a twisted core to allow stretch and a static is braided inside braided, for several layers to attempt to limit stretch.

Ok I get what you are saying now, our Super Yanker ropes are Nylon double braid. They have a twisted core of nylon with a outer cover braided over it, also made of nylon, these stretch up to 30% when used properly.

-Alex